Happy MR Podcast Podcast Series

Ep. 444 – Sasha McCune, Director of Conifer Research, on the Do’s and Don’ts of Working with Gen Z

My guest today is Sasha McCune, the Director of Conifer Research. Conifer is a market research design and innovation company founded in 2001 and is based in Chicago, Illinois. 

They specialize in helping organizations gather deep insights and apply those insights in a timely manner to reach their goals. 

Prior to joining Conifer Research, Sasha was a graphic designer at the Philadelphia Museum of Art.

Find Sasha Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sashamccune/ 

Website: https://coniferresearch.com/ 

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil

Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil 

Find Us Online: 

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp 

Website: www.happymr.com 

Music: 

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com 

This Episode is Sponsored by:

This episode is brought to you by Michigan State’s Marketing Research program. Are you looking for higher pay, to expand your professional network, and to achieve your full potential in the world of market research?

Today, the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals.

They also provide career support assisting students to win today’s most sought-after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan State’s Marketing Research students have accepted job offers 6 months prior to graduating.

The program has three formats:

  • The first is a Full-Time 100% Online program taught over 12-months starting in January 2022
  • The second is a Part-Time 100% Online program that is 20-months. This one starts in May 2022 and is specifically designed for working professionals,
  • And of course, they offer a Full-Time 12-month in-person experience that starts in September 2022

All programs include real-world experience and full-time job placement support.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at:

broad.msu.edu/marketing 

It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it and your future self will thank you. Class sizes are limited, so please, check it out today. 


This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that SurveyMonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI-powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business so you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand, and build winning products faster. 

Momentive offers 22 purpose-built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine, built-in expertise, sophisticated methodologies, and an integrated global panel of over 144M people to deliver meaningful insights in hours, not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed, so you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization.
To learn more, visit momentive.ai

Happy MR Podcast Podcast Series

Ep. 443 – The Power of Creating Your Own Panel Community With Dyna Boen, Managing Director at Escalent

Our guest today is Dyna Boen, Managing Director at Escalent. 

Escalent is a human behavior and analytics advisory firm specializing in industries facing disruption and business transformation. Their customers include Land Rover, Volvo, Johnson and Johnson, and Comcast. 

Prior to joining Escalent, Dyna served as the Head of Audience Sales at SurveyMonkey and served as a key executive at Lucid and Upwave. She also gives back to the market research industry by serving on the board of directors of WIRe (Women in Research) and the Insights Association. 

Find Dyna Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dynaboen 

Website: https://escalent.co/ 

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil

Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil 

Find Us Online: 

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp 

Website: www.happymr.com 

Music: 

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com 

This Episode is Sponsored by:

This episode is brought to you by Michigan State’s Marketing Research program. Are you looking for higher pay, to expand your professional network, and to achieve your full potential in the world of market research?

Today, the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals.

They also provide career support assisting students to win today’s most sought-after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan State’s Marketing Research students have accepted job offers 6 months prior to graduating.

The program has three formats:

  • The first is a Full-Time 100% Online program taught over 12-months starting in January 2022
  • The second is a Part-Time 100% Online program that is 20-months. This one starts in May 2022 and is specifically designed for working professionals,
  • And of course, they offer a Full-Time 12-month in-person experience that starts in September 2022

All programs include real-world experience and full-time job placement support.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at:

broad.msu.edu/marketing 

It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it and your future self will thank you. Class sizes are limited, so please, check it out today. 


This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that SurveyMonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI-powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business so you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand, and build winning products faster. 

Momentive offers 22 purpose-built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine, built-in expertise, sophisticated methodologies, and an integrated global panel of over 144M people to deliver meaningful insights in hours, not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed, so you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization.

To learn more, visit momentive.ai 


[00:00:00]

Jamin Brazil: Hi everyone. I’m Jamin. You are listening to the Happy Market Research Podcast. My guest today is Dyna Boen, managing director at Escalent. Escalent is a human behavior and analytics advisory firm specializing in industries facing disruption and business transformation, which is just about everybody. Their customers include Land Rover, Volvo, Johnson & Johnson, Comcast, etc., etc. Prior to joining Escalent, Dyna served as the head of audience sales at SurveyMonkey and served as a key executive at Lucid and Upway. She also gives back to the market research industry by serving on the board of directors of WIRe, that’s Women in Research, and the Insights Association. Dyna, thanks for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast today.

[00:00:49]

Dyna Boen: Jamin, it’s always great to spend time with you. As you know, I’m a happy market researcher.

[00:01:00]

Jamin Brazil: I’ve done hundreds of interviews with as top minds in market research. Many of them trace their role to Michigan state’s marketing research program. Are you looking for higher pay to expand your professional network and to achieve your full potential in the world of marketing research. Today, the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals. They also provide career support, assisting students to win today’s most sought after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan states marketing research students have accepted jobs six months prior to graduating. The program has three formats. The first is a full-time 100% online program that is taught over 12 months. It starts in January, 2022. The second is a part-time 100% online program, it lasts 20 months and it starts in May, 2022. It’s specifically designed for working professionals. Of course, they offer a full-time 12 month in-person experience that starts in September, 2022. All programs include real world experience with full-time job placement support. If you are looking to achieve your full potential check out MSU’s program at broad. msu. edu/marketing, that’s B-R-O-A-D. msu. edu/marketing. It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it. Class sizes are limited. So, please check them out today. This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that SurveyMonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business. So, you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand and build winning products faster. Momentive offers 22 purpose built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine built in expertise, sophisticated methodologies, and an integrated global panel of over 144 million people to deliver meaningful insights and hours not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed. So, you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization. To learn more, visit momentive. ai, that’s M-O-M-E-N-T-I-V-E. ai. Well, and I can tell you this, you were one of my first guests ever, and I’m very thankful for you taking a risk on me and participating back in the day.

[00:03:33]

Dyna Boen: Well, it was a lot of fun the first time we did it and I expect it to be a lot of fun today.

[00:03:39]

Jamin Brazil: Let’s get to it. The Insights Association recognizes individuals who have distinguished themselves in the field of market research. Nominations are done by peers and are awarded based on the degree of impact that the nominees have made on the insight’s industry itself. What does it mean for you have been acknowledged by the Insights Association as an IPC laureate?

[00:04:05]

Dyna Boen: Well, Jamin, it means a lot. In fact, the day that I received the information or the award that I was a laureate, it was my birthday and I got really emotional because it was a surprise. I didn’t expect it. It wasn’t something that I applied for or knew was coming in any way. So, I think because of that, because it was a surprise recognition and because of the other people that were also mentioned as laureates, who are people, some of which have been mentors to me, friends, colleagues, business partners, along our journey in our careers, to be on a list with people that I admire and have looked up to in my career, really, it struck me right in the heart. So, I still get emotional thinking about it. I think, to me, a career is something that you pour your heart in and I’m just generally very passionate about the industry and about my role in it and my career at the companies that I’ve served and the people that I’ve served at those companies and so it brings a smile to my face and it really warms my heart that that work has been recognized. I also think a lot about what it means, because it doesn’t mean you’ve reached some kind of endpoint. It’s a recognition of, “Oh, you need to continue to serve. You need to continue to serve and bring your talents and strengths to the industry to help others”. So, since I’ve received that award, I’ve doubled down on some things that are new and things that are still coming with Insights Association, that I hope to continue to make an impact on the industry, as well as a positive impact on the lives of individuals in our industry.

[00:06:10]

Jamin Brazil: Of course, giving back as part of your ethos. You started, or with Kristin Luck helped start WIRe, women in research, which is having a huge positive impact on-

[00:06:21]

Dyna Boen: WIRexec. To be clear, Kristin started WIRe.

[00:06:25]

Jamin Brazil: Not WIRe, WIRexec.

[00:06:28]

Dyna Boen: But WIRexec, which is a program at WIRe that I’m super proud of as is the team of women who were on the founding committee for that, which is Kristin. I appreciate her taking a risk on the idea with us, Bri Moore and Heidi Dicker. So, it’s been a group effort and it takes a team as you know.

[00:06:51]

Jamin Brazil: Yes, it really does. So, many laureates they serve as mentors to other inside of the industry at varying levels of their career. Can you provide some advice for young professionals in the insights industry? Another way of thinking of it is, like if you were entering into the insights industry today, what’s some advice you wish someone would give you?

[00:07:15]

Dyna Boen: I have always felt very strongly that if you want to grow, you need to raise your hand. So, if there’s something that excites you, if there’s something that you want to be a part of, take a risk and raise your hand and volunteer. It’s often the things that aren’t part of your job description that take you to new heights and new places in your career. At every moment in my career where I’ve done something outside of what was my typical job description, it stretched me and it’s taken me to the next level. So, I would encourage anyone to do that, to raise your hand, any leader that has somebody saying, I want to help you build your vision, whatever that is, is going to be excited to have the help and they’re going to be crazy not to embrace somebody who’s raising their hand to get involved.

[00:08:14]

Jamin Brazil: Love it. That is exactly right, because it puts some burden on the individual. To stand out from the crowd and volunteer their time. I think about like all the different opportunities there are for young people or recent entrants to be able to give back to our community. It’s quite literally limitless. I think a lot of times they might hold off on wanting to raise their hand because they feel like they can’t actually add anything, but you and I both know that’s the opposite.

[00:08:45]

Dyna Boen: Absolutely. You learn as you go. I definitely I’m OK with making mistakes. It’s taken me a long time to be able to say that to get to a level of professional maturity or maybe just tenured maturity in my life. Because I think at many times in my career, I strive to be a perfectionist, but I’m much more in the camp of done as better than perfect and we’re going to learn as we go. I’m comfortable with the discomfort of that. Because if you sit and wait to do the perfect plan, you’re never going to get moving on things and get things off the ground. When I get involved with projects, I will always tell people that I’m a person of action. So, if you want movement, not perfection, but movement and growth and things to start happening, that’s where I’m a good fit.

[00:09:42]

Jamin Brazil: So, speaking of things happening, managing director at Escalent, that is a big deal. Tell us a little bit about the business.

[00:09:51]

Dyna Boen: I love the business. Look, it’s December 14th, 2021. So, it’s been quite a year and I started officially in my role in September of 2020. So, many leaders had all sorts of challenges, some growth challenges, some retraction challenges, some talent finding challenges, staffing challenges. So, we’ve all seen them all over the course of the last 18 months in various different flavors. I certainly have. It’s been a roller coaster ride and I try to ride the middle, but the ups and the high highs and the low lows are there. This year, I would say, we had a solid Q4 at the ending 2020 after what was a year of crazy, but just so much uncertainty. We were bullish about our growth plan for 2021, my team and I, my leadership team for my business in the org and we had a slow start to the year. Solid Q4 and you know how you’re in Q4 and you’re doing planning and you’re like, next year’s going to be amazing. But for my area of the business, it was a little bit of a slower start than we expected. Then we really, right around June started to see a tidal wave of change happening and we’ve truly had an amazing growth year. So, in December having this conversation, I feel grateful. I feel lucky. I have a more talented team today than what I started with at the beginning of the year. They are absolutely kick ass the best in the industry and it is because of them that I am able to say, we are having a fantastic year. So, today I’m super excited. If you would have talked to me in June, I would’ve been like, “Oh, my God”. So, but I always share the ups and downs because I don’t like to paint a picture that things are always rosy. I might be doing less webinars and podcasts when things aren’t rusty, because I’m busy trying to fix stuff. But yes, it’s the reality and so I’m feeling grateful and we’re planning for the future right now and the future is bright.

[00:12:23]

Jamin Brazil: That’s so exciting. I love hearing the negative actually more than the positive. I mean, it’s fantastic that you’ve pulled out of that, but in every way we judge ourselves based on our perception of the people around us or the companies around us, and nobody really lives up to the hype of social media and what we see there. I think there’s a lot of negativity that we build in our heads around, oh, everybody’s doing better than me. The industry’s blowing up, et cetera, et cetera and I’m not taking advantage of it. I appreciate your transparency and willingness to be vulnerable and really true, which is of course, part of who you are. Because it’s a big impact on the operators inside of the industry. You and I both know that everybody isn’t doing fantastic even coming into Q4, or out of Q4.

[00:13:10]

Dyna Boen: Well, I think memes get you through the- funny memes and videos. I honestly, they just lighten the load when things are rough and I am a pretty upbeat person. I tend to be super positive. I look at the world that way, but there’s been moments over the course of the last two years where you just got to believe in yourself in what you’re doing, even when everyone else is like, what are you doing? Like, just hang on, hang on. I’ve got a plan, we’re executing on it. When you’re a pendulum swinger, you just got to take care of yourself-

[00:13:49]

Jamin Brazil: You got to hold on.

[00:13:50]

Dyna Boen: And believe in what you’re doing.

[00:13:54]

Jamin Brazil: For sure. I think that’s exactly right. The power of the meme. So, what is one trend issue or technology that you anticipate will have a significant impact in 2022 and beyond?

[00:14:08]

Dyna Boen: I am thinking a lot about communities right now. I know that’s not the newest technology, but I see so many amazing ways to use communities for many of the clients that we serve. If we think about what’s going on and I will articulate this through the lens of consumer and retail, because that is one of the areas that my team has domain expertise in and I spend a lot of time in. So, as I think about consumer and retail, people want, and I think we saw this come out on great today. I think we saw a data point on this. It was actually measured by Alita as 90% of customers want an experience that’s unique and tailored and customized to them. The best way to learn about that for a brand or for a product or a services company is through communities. So, I saw that data point today and probably stood out for me because it’s something I’m thinking a lot about in terms of consumer and retail overall, and our customer base, especially customers that have in-person experiences, retail restaurants, retail stores, some of which are online experiences as well. I think about it as a consumer myself and when you have a good experience. So, what does that mean and how do we do a better job understanding what a unique customer experience is that truly delights that customer. The deeper insights are going to come from those community technology platforms and that type of insights learning.

[00:15:52]

Jamin Brazil: It’s funny, I just did a study on millennials this last Sunday. So, I launched against an existing community of real humans and nine o’clock, we launched a study and by six o’clock that evening, I had 200 people who provided me a combination of qualitative and quantitative feedback, including video open ends. There’s like this, there’s this connection that you can make with that level of access and that you just can’t make inside of a normal panel. I don’t mean any disrespect to my friends at any of the panel companies, they definitely serve a material partner or industry, but it’s hard to get like video open ends and things like that from non-managed communities.

[00:16:35]

Dyna Boen: Panels are a great purpose to go out outside of a community and got broader market reads. So, there’s a ton of values to that, but communities are going to tell you- I remember the first community that I ever did, it was probably over 10 years ago now. It was a baking brand. People who know what companies I’ve worked for in the past could probably guess what that brand is, but I don’t want to go into too much detail. But this baking brand had a community that people would, they didn’t even need incentives, they loved getting recipes and they loved the product so much that it just took on a life of its own. People in the community met each other outside of the online community in real life and swapped recipes and these things. There’s just so much power in that for a brand to understand that relationship at that level and you now that people love your brand when they don’t need to be incentivized at all to participate in these types of research activities.

[00:17:45]

Jamin Brazil: That’s so interesting. If we had more time, I’d love to dive in more in the topic of incentives, but that is for another day, which you and I will pick up later. My last question to you is what is your personal motto?

[00:17:58]

Dyna Boen: Well, so it’s interesting that you ask me because we just came off of WIRexec and typically, that’s a spring event, but because of travel and whatnot, we just did it in November. One of the things that’s really special about WIRexec, is that you think about your intention for the next year, and you can decide if you want to proclaim it and share it. I proclaimed and share that mine is finish strong. So, sitting here in December after all that I already shared about the year, it’s just finish strong. It means a lot to me right now. It’s not a new motto. On most days, I’d probably say dynamite because of my name, but right now, it’s finished strong because I want to finish the year strong. But it’s also, my daughter’s a senior in high school. My momming is going to be changing, the momming part of my job. So, I’m momming up and finishing strong for the second half of her senior year of high school and getting ready to send her off to college. So, it means a lot to me in my professional, as well as my personal life. I’m a lifelong runner. So, if you’re a runner and you’ve crossed the finish line, you know you need to finish strong. So, it resonates with me all the way around.

[00:19:22]

Jamin Brazil: My guest today has been Dyna Boen, managing director, Escalent. Thank you so much, Diana for joining me.

[00:19:29]

Dyna Boen: Thank you, Jamin. I love being an IPC laureate with you.

[00:19:33]

Jamin Brazil: Oh, big virtual hug.

[00:19:36]

Dyna Boen: Hugs.

[00:19:38]

Jamin Brazil: Everyone else. Hope you enjoyed the episode. I am thrilled that you gave us so much of your time. If you found some value, please screen capture, share on social media, tag me and I will send you a t-shirt for reals. Have a great day.

Happy MR Podcast Podcast Series

Ep. 442 – Hana Ben-Shabat, Founder of Gen Z Planet, on What you Need to Know Before Working with Gen Z

My guest today is Hana Ben-Shabat, keynote speaker and founder of Gen Z Planet. Founded in 2019, Gen Z Planet is a research and advisory firm focused on helping brands understand and navigate the change that Gen Z is bringing. 

Most recently, Hana released her new book, “Gen Z 360,” a guide to understanding the next generation of culture, creators, employees, and consumers. 

Find Hana Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hanabenshabat/ 

Website: https://genzplanet.com/ 

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil

Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil 

Find Us Online: 

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp 

Website: www.happymr.com 

Music: 

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com 

This Episode is Sponsored by:

This episode is brought to you by Michigan State’s Marketing Research program. Are you looking for higher pay, to expand your professional network, and to achieve your full potential in the world of market research?

Today, the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals.

They also provide career support assisting students to win today’s most sought-after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan State’s Marketing Research students have accepted job offers 6 months prior to graduating.

The program has three formats:

  • The first is a Full-Time 100% Online program taught over 12-months starting in January 2022
  • The second is a Part-Time 100% Online program that is 20-months. This one starts in May 2022 and is specifically designed for working professionals,
  • And of course, they offer a Full-Time 12-month in-person experience that starts in September 2022

All programs include real-world experience and full-time job placement support.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at:

broad.msu.edu/marketing 

It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it and your future self will thank you. Class sizes are limited, so please, check it out today. 


This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that SurveyMonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI-powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business so you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand, and build winning products faster. 

Momentive offers 22 purpose-built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine, built-in expertise, sophisticated methodologies, and an integrated global panel of over 144M people to deliver meaningful insights in hours, not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed, so you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization.
To learn more, visit momentive.ai

Happy MR Podcast Podcast Series

Ep. 441 – Connecting Strategy to Execution with Ari Zelmanow, Senior Director of Research, Analytics, and Insights at Gtmhub

Our guest today is Dr. Ari Zelmanow, the Sherlock Holmes of Consumer Behavior. He is also the Senior Director of Research, Analytics, and Insights at Gtmhub. 

Founded in 2015, Gtmhub is a SaaS company that helps businesses manage employees through business results. Specifically, they leverage an Objective & Key Result framework. Today, Gtmhub serves over 500,000 users across 1,000 organizations globally. 

Prior to joining Gtmhub, Dr. Zelmanow has held senior insight roles at Panasonic, Twitter and Altria. 

Find Ari Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zelmanow/ 

Website: https://gtmhub.com/ 

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil

Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil 

Find Us Online: 

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp 

Website: www.happymr.com 

Music: 

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com 

This Episode is Sponsored by:

This episode is brought to you by Michigan State’s Marketing Research program. Are you looking for higher pay, to expand your professional network, and to achieve your full potential in the world of market research?

Today, the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals.

They also provide career support assisting students to win today’s most sought-after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan State’s Marketing Research students have accepted job offers 6 months prior to graduating.

The program has three formats:

  • The first is a Full-Time 100% Online program taught over 12-months starting in January 2022
  • The second is a Part-Time 100% Online program that is 20-months. This one starts in May 2022 and is specifically designed for working professionals,
  • And of course, they offer a Full-Time 12-month in-person experience that starts in September 2022

All programs include real-world experience and full-time job placement support.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at:

broad.msu.edu/marketing 

It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it and your future self will thank you. Class sizes are limited, so please, check it out today. 


This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that SurveyMonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI-powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business so you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand, and build winning products faster. 

Momentive offers 22 purpose-built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine, built-in expertise, sophisticated methodologies, and an integrated global panel of over 144M people to deliver meaningful insights in hours, not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed, so you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization.

To learn more, visit momentive.ai 


[00:00:00]

Jamin Brazil: Hey everyone. I’m Jamin, you’re listening to the Happy Market Research podcast. My guest today is Ari Zelmanow, the Sherlock Holmes of consumer behavior. He’s also the senior director of research analytics and insights at Gtmhub. Founded in 2015, Gtmhub is a SaaS company that helps businesses manage employees through business results. Specifically, they leverage an objective and key results or OKR framework today. Gtmhub serves over 500,000 users across 1,000 organizations globally. Prior to joining Gtmhub, Dr. Zelmanow has had senior insight roles at Panasonic, Twitter and Altria. Ari, thanks for joining me on the Happy Market Research podcast.

[00:00:46]

Ari Zelmanow: Thanks Jamin. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:51]

Jamin Brazil: I’ve done hundreds of interviews with today’s top minds in market research. Many of them trace their role to Michigan state’s marketing research program. Are you looking for a higher pay, to expand your professional network and to achieve your full potential in the world of marketing research, today the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals. They also provide career support, assisting students to win today’s most sought after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan state’s marketing research students have accepted jobs six months prior to graduating. The program has three formats. The first is a full-time 100% online program that is taught over 12 months. It starts in January 2022. The second is a part-time 100% online program. It lasts 20 months and it starts in May 2022. It’s specifically designed for working professionals. And of course, they offer a full-time 12 month in-person experience that starts in September 2022. All programs include real world experience with full-time job placement support. If you were looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSU’s program at broad.msu.edu/marketing, that’s B-R-O-A-D. msu.edu/marketing. It costs nothing to get more details, take the time, invest in yourself. You’re worth it. Class sizes are limited. So please check them out today. This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that Surveymonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business. So you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand and build winning products faster. Momentive offers 22 purpose-built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine, built in expertise, sophisticated methodologies and an integrated global panel of over 144 million people to deliver meaningful insights in hours not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed. So you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization. To learn more visit momentive. ai, that’s M-O-M-E-N-T-I-V-E. ai. Huge honor. First, congratulations on being named one of the Insights Associations laureates.

[00:03:20]

Ari Zelmanow: Thank you. It’s such a tremendous honor to be, not only among the other laureates who were selected for this first round, but also just for being part of that organization. I think it’s been awesome to see the great growth and vision that that organization’s had, the Insights Association has had over the past few years, and I’m excited to see where they go in the future as well.

[00:03:44]

Jamin Brazil: So as you know, I’d like to start out with a little bit of context. Tell us a little bit about your parents and how they inform what you do today.

[00:03:51]

Ari Zelmanow: That’s a really good question. And I would say that there’s a lot of influence there. My father was an attorney and my mother did educational consulting. She was a teacher before that. And so I’d always had this desire to teach others and work with others and help others, because I think both of those professions are deeply rooted in that. But I think the field of law really is well suited to insights and the way we think about things and the way that evidence is weighed and the way that logic is applied to problems. And I would say that that has had a tremendous impact on the way I analyze problems, the way I think about risk and candidly, the way I communicate about those things.

[00:04:33]

Jamin Brazil: It is a lot about like the null hypothesis. So coming up with what you think is truth and then proving it or disproving it.

[00:04:42]

Ari Zelmanow: Totally. I think that, and I think there’s the second component. So something’s happened in market research, certainly during the times of our careers is this flow toward quantification, of wanting to attach numbers and measurement to everything. And while I think that’s important and I’m not minimizing that at all, I also think that we should never lose sight of how evidence is weighed in a court of law and how you can still get proof beyond a reasonable doubt without a number. And so knowing and thinking about the continuum of burden of proof and the way that evidence is weighed can really help insights professionals, market researchers, UX researchers, analysts, think about the businesses and problems they solve. Like is something beyond a reasonable doubt or is it a preponderance of the evidence or is there just not enough evidence at all. And thinking in terms of that, really opens up some new doors into what we can do to inform our stakeholders and the businesses we serve and help drive them toward better business outcomes.

[00:05:46]

Jamin Brazil: I literally have never, in 26 years thought of it in that way. That’s so enlightening for me. Thank you.

[00:05:54]

Ari Zelmanow: You bet.

[00:05:57]

Jamin Brazil: You’re totally right. Anyways, that’s a whole another topic I’m absolutely going to dig into at a later episode. Not the intent of this ones. The Insights Association seeks to recognize as laureates outstanding peer nominated members with distinguished careers and contributions who have advanced and benefited the industry. This is considered a lifetime recognition of distinction in the field of market research, rather than simply an award for specific achievement. So tell me, what does it mean to you to be acknowledged by the Insights Association as an IPC laureate?

[00:06:36]

Ari Zelmanow: I’ve got to be honest, it’s almost, not even almost, it’s just overwhelming. First, it’s such an honor to have people that I’ve worked alongside or that I’ve gotten to know through the course of my career, recognizing that some of the achievements or some of the things that I’ve done, or some of the benefits that I’ve given to our chosen profession, it’s just such a tremendous honor. And then I think on a larger level, I think it’s really awesome that I’m able to have an impact at a broader scale because of it. And I would say that it’s-. So I liken it to this. I ran an Ironman a few years ago and what I would tell people about the Ironman is that race isn’t run on race day. It’s run on every training session prior to race day. So every time you go for a run or you’re going swimming, or you get on the bike and you’re training, those are the days that equate to success. And the laureate, being named a laureate also kind of gives credence to that as well. I didn’t get the laureate just from the- on the day that it was conferred. It was from all the work that I did ahead of time, like the speaking engagements and continuing education and working. I’m grateful for the University of Georgia for a lot of the things that they’ve done with market research. I’m grateful for the companies that I’ve gotten to work for, Altria, Panasonic, Twitter, Gtmhub, Indeed in helping me better refine my craft and better refine my thinking about what we’re doing. And it’s a convergence of all of those things. So when people get up on a stage at the- when they’re winning an Emmy or whatever, and they say, this is- it’s not- this is not my award. The award is really to everybody that supported me, I feel the same way. Being named a laureate, isn’t just mine. It’s my family’s for the support that they’ve given me. It’s for peers like you who have supported me through all this, for the companies for giving me the opportunity. It’s really a recognition of all of those factors coming together in just as beautiful way.

[00:08:44]

Jamin Brazil: I’d like to talk a little bit about your current employer, Gtmhub. OKR frameworks are something that is- I actually teach an OKR framework at an executive level, so C level, and I have not seen it rolled out in the way that I read on the website. What attracted you to the business?

[00:09:04]

Ari Zelmanow: In my initial attraction kind of came by a weird way. I was at Panasonic and we had started using OKRs and I was exploring software tools. And Gtmhub was the clear winner for me when I was evaluating them. And then what happened is I left Panasonic. I had a brief diversion over to Indeed, and then ultimately Gtmhub reached out because of a friend of mine that works there and said, we’d like you to build a team similar to the ones you built before at Twitter, Panasonic, and that you were building at Indeed and do that here. And knowing what they were working on and having this foundational understanding and belief in OKRs. To me, OKRs are a phenomenal way to connect strategy to execution. The best description is that it just helps people get shit done. That’s really what businesses want. Businesses want outcomes, they want to be able to achieve things. And so being able to join a team that actually is working on that problem, on working on connecting strategy to execution was just something that I find it resonates with my soul. And I think it resonates for a bunch of reasons. Like one of the things that has marked my career, whether it’s professionally or personally, is a real desire to push through and get things done. Whether it was the Ironman triathlon, earning a doctorate, growing to the role that I have today, all of those things took execution, just real good execution. And so that just resonates with me.

[00:10:44]

Jamin Brazil: It’s a very powerful if leveraged correctly, a very powerful tool for business outcome that happens at a- it can be leveraged across the organization, as you’ve already articulated. Many laureates serve as mentors to others in the industry. Are you applying that same OKR framework to young professionals or other people that you are influencing so that they can have better outcomes for their career?

[00:11:13]

Ari Zelmanow: 100%. I think, I just think it is such an effective way to drive impact by setting an objective. Some sort of goal and then having key results, which can just replace key result with a language as measured by, and you’ve got an objective and key result. And by doing that, it chunks things out into a reasonable size that people can achieve. It’s not reasonable for somebody who graduates from college or a master’s program to say, hey, I want to be a VP of insights in a year, but they might say, you know what, I do want to lead teams. And then setting objectives and key results around making progress toward that outcome, that end goal, ensures that they’re going to do that. As you and I both know, success comes from gradual improvement over time. It’s not an overnight thing. And I think that that’s something that I see where a lot of mistakes are made, is people assume that it’s just- you just fall into something and that’s just not the way it works. It’s gradual improvement. And OKRs, when used correctly help drive that gradual improvement.

[00:12:19]

Jamin Brazil: And I think most- what’s astounding to me is a lot of people actually don’t use OKRs or even not heard of them. Maybe you could give level set with every- with the listeners. What is an example of an OKR?

[00:12:34]

Ari Zelmanow: An example of an OKR, I guess it would depend on in a business sense, or if you’re talking in a personal sense, but an OKR, an objective you could have, could be, I want to lose 20 pounds next year. That could be your objective. So your key results, your objective is to lose 20 pounds. Notice that there’s a number, there’s- it’s some sort of stretch. It’s not easy to attain. You don’t want to dog it, you don’t want to say, I want to lose two pounds next year because we all know you can lose two pounds. 20 pounds in a year is a very lofty goal. Is it achievable, yes. If you miss it, that’s OK. Objectives are meant to be lofty. And then key results for that could be, I’m going to do 30 minutes of exercise every day. You can measure that. So by doing the 30 minutes of exercise every day, will you make progress toward the overall objective, yes. The other could be like 100% of the time, I will eat 1,800 calories or less per day. And you’ll set several, you should not set more than five. Three is probably a good number key results. And you should have one or two objectives going at a time, if you do those things, you will make progress toward that goal. You will appreciably move the needle toward what you’re trying to achieve. Something you said is interesting though and it’s- I don’t think truer words are spoken. OKRs, they can be explained just like jobs to be done, but theoretically, the theory behind it, doesn’t always tell you how to do it. And that’s something that Gtmhub is really good at. Is helping people take that theoretical construct of OKRs and strategy and execution enablement, and actioning on it.

[00:14:14]

Jamin Brazil: It’s interesting. I’m going to do a- I had not heard of Gtmhub. I’m going to do a deeper dive into the platform. But so sorry, listeners, this is not intended to be an infomercial by any means, just a point of interest for me, especially relative to what I’m facing in- with different companies I work with. But it’s really about inputs and outputs. So a lot of times companies will set an, or individuals will set an output expectation, like I’m going to achieve 50% growth this year or whatever, but it kind of stops there. Then they might even reverse engineer what that looks like, but the inputs are the part that it’s oftentimes lost. You can always see this in a sales framework on outbound sales, because you usually track things like outbound calls. That’s a good example of a key result, and something that you can always do no matter what, but the outcome, which is like customers won, there’s a lot of factors that go into, if you’re going to be able to win the customer or not. So it’s a very powerful framework and if you are unfamiliar with it, I’d encourage you to at least Google it, check it out. It is the most powerful tool, in my opinion, for oversized business outcomes for a relatively light lift. Anyway, so let’s shift gears a little bit. We are entering into 2022. This is December 1st, 2021, we’re recording this interview. What is one trend issue or technology that you anticipate will have a big impact on our industry in the coming year?

[00:15:42]

Ari Zelmanow: I think that the trend that will continue is looking for ways to better conduct research that is not in-person. I know COVID has had impacts on focus group facilities and in-person research, context research. And I think we’re going to continue to see that growth continue, not because of COVID, but because of probably some of the cost savings that were realized by not having to travel. And so I think that that trend will probably continue as we explore those things. I think another trend that we’re going to see grow is the convergence of analytics research and insights functions, or at least this is aspirationally, but I hope we see where these functions stop existing in such siloed areas. Like UX research is buried under product or design, market research is buried under marketing. And where these functions learn kind of start to stand on their own and serve as an advisory function to the entire business.

[00:16:43]

Jamin Brazil: Sort of the unification of the disciplines?

[00:16:46]

Ari Zelmanow: I think the unification of the disciplines is definitely something that I think we will see a trend towards. I don’t know if we will see that all happen, but I think that the convergence of the data from the disciplines is certainly going to become a big [CROSSTALK].

[00:17:00]

Jamin Brazil: There’s such a unique nomenclature and application of the data inside of the three disciplines, CX UX and market research, but the overlapping, the way that the methodologies and things like that, is largely very similar. There’s a lot of cross sharing that happens. It really gets me thinking a lot and I’ve heard this over the last forever, but the insight hub space definitely feels like the time is right. There’s so much data that’s lost when an employee moves from one company to another, for example, because so much of that exists in a- their Outlook folder or whatever. And so being able to protect and then access that, is the data accessibility and visibility across your organization, that really has a multiplicity impact on what your data can do, the leveragability of your data. So I have one last question for you. Do you have a personal motto?

[00:17:56]

Ari Zelmanow: Wow. You know what, I think I do. And it came to me recently, which is funny because I have a strong belief in justice. I think that’s been ingrained into me. We go back to what my parents, the impact my parents have had on me and my upbringing, and justice is definitely one of those things. But with justice, there must be truth. And so I would tell you that my personal motto is semper veritas, truth always. And it aligns with my thoughts and research and what we’re trying to accomplish, and what we try to do for the businesses we serve. So I think that that would be, if I had to pick one today, that would be it.

[00:18:35]

Jamin Brazil: My guest today has been Dr. Ari Zelmanow, the Sherlock Holmes of consumer behavior. Ari, thanks for joining me on the Happy Market Research podcast.

[00:18:44]

Ari Zelmanow: Thank you for having me. I’ve really enjoyed the time.

[00:18:47]

Jamin Brazil: Everybody, I hope you enjoyed the episode. I certainly learned a couple of things. I hope you’re able to take that with you. As always, if you screen capture, share this episode, tag me on social media, as gimmicky as it is, I will send you a t-shirt. Have a good rest of your day.

Happy MR Podcast Podcast Series

Ep. 440 – Laura Beavin-Yates, SVP of Customer Success at Immersion, on Utilizing Smartwatches to Measure Emotional Connection

My guest today is Laura Beavin-Yates, SVP of Customer Success at Immersion.

Immersion is a technology platform that measures people’s unconscious neurological connection to an experience or piece of content in real-time using their existing smartwatch. 

Prior to joining Immersion, Laura was the Manager of Research & Development of the Neuro & Behavioral Science Centre at Ipsos.

Find Laura Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-beavin-yates/ 

Website: https://www.getimmersion.com/ 

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil

Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil 

Find Us Online: 

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp 

Website: www.happymr.com 

Music: 

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com 

This Episode is Sponsored by:

This episode is brought to you by Michigan State’s Marketing Research program. Are you looking for higher pay, to expand your professional network, and to achieve your full potential in the world of market research?

Today, the program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals.

They also provide career support assisting students to win today’s most sought-after jobs. In fact, over 80% of Michigan State’s Marketing Research students have accepted job offers 6 months prior to graduating.

The program has three formats:

  • The first is a Full-Time 100% Online program taught over 12-months starting in January 2022
  • The second is a Part-Time 100% Online program that is 20-months. This one starts in May 2022 and is specifically designed for working professionals,
  • And of course, they offer a Full-Time 12-month in-person experience that starts in September 2022

All programs include real-world experience and full-time job placement support.

If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSMU’s programs at:

broad.msu.edu/marketing 

It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it and your future self will thank you. Class sizes are limited, so please, check it out today. 


This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that SurveyMonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI-powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business so you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand, and build winning products faster. 

Momentive offers 22 purpose-built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine, built-in expertise, sophisticated methodologies, and an integrated global panel of over 144M people to deliver meaningful insights in hours, not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed, so you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization.
To learn more, visit momentive.ai


[00:00:00]

Jamin Brazil: Hi everybody, I’m Jamin. You are listening to the Happy Market Research podcast. My guest today is Laura Beavin Yates, SVP of customer success at Immersion. Immersion is a technology platform that measures people’s unconscious neurological connection to an experience, or piece of content in real-time using their existing smartwatch. Prior to joining Immersion, Laura was the manager of research and development of the neuro and behavioral science center at Ipsos. Laura, welcome to the Happy Market Research podcast.

[00:00:36]

Laura Beavin-Yates: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here with you today.

[00:00:40]

Jamin Brazil: As you know I’ve done hundreds of interviews with today’s top minds in marketing research. Many of them trace their roots to Michigan State’s marketing research program. Are you looking for higher pay to expand your professional network and to achieve your full potential in the world of market research? The program has tracks for both full-time students and working professionals. They also provide career support assisting students to win today’s most sought after jobs. In fact, over 80 percent of Michigan State’s marketing research students have accepted job offers six months prior to graduating. The program has three formats. The first, full-time 100 percent online program taught over 12 months and it starts this January. The second is a part-time 100 percent online program that’s spread over 20 months. This one starts in May and is specifically designed for working professionals. And of course they have their full-time 12 month in person experience that starts September 2022. All programs include real world experience and full-time job placement support. If you are looking to achieve your full potential, check out MSU’s program at B-R-O-A-D, that’s broad.msu.edu/marketing. That’s B-R-O-A-D. msu. edu/marketing. It costs nothing to get more details. Take the time, invest in yourself. You are worth it. And your future self will thank you. Class sizes are limited, so please check them out today. This episode is brought to you by Momentive. You may have heard that SurveyMonkey’s parent company recently rebranded as Momentive, a leader in agile insights and experience management. The Momentive AI powered insights platform is built for the pace of modern business so you can deeply understand your market, elevate your brand, and build winning products faster. Momentive offers 22 purpose built market research solutions that incorporate an AI engine, built in expertise, sophisticated methodologies, and an integrated global panel of over 144 million people to deliver meaningful insights and hours not months. Momentive also has a team of market research consultants that can take on anything from research design to custom reporting as needed, so you can spend more time shaping what’s next for your organization. To learn more, visit momentive. ai. That’s M-O-M-E-N-T-I-V-E. ai. We like to create some context. Tell us about your parents. What did they do and how did that inform what you do today?

[00:03:19]

Laura Beavin-Yates: I love talking about my parents that I could probably talk about them for the whole time but I will not. So my mom was a self-starter. She was a young mom actually and she didn’t let that hold her back. She learned to fly planes and helicopters. She was in sales, she owned many of her own. She was a really strong and confident woman and really she always believed that she could do anything that men could do, and that inspired me. She I feel was kind of a behavioral feminist. She didn’t go out and preach about feminism but just acted around it. And so she really inspired me to be a leader where I can not only share my ideas that will make an impact, but she inspired me to change lives in positive ways. And she also inspired me to say yes to pretty much anything, and really led me to this failure isn’t really an option attitude. My dad he was a handyman, he worked on furniture for years. He did upholstery repair but he was also a musician. And really I would define him as an aspiring psychologist. He was a huge hippie, he was really compassionate. He was always an ear for me and a voice of reason, and he always told me that I could accomplish anything. He really is what inspired me to want to make the world better through care and connection, which is a big mission at Immersion actually. And he also motivated my passion for mentorship which plays a big role in what I’m doing today.

[00:04:46]

Jamin Brazil: Talk to me more about mentorship. Are you specifically talking about mentoring new entrants into the consumer insight space, or is it in a different area?

[00:05:01]

Laura Beavin-Yates: That’s a great question. I view mentorship as being really broad actually. I taught formerly, so I used to teach psychology and would love to also continue doing that in the future when I have a little bit more time. But right now the ways in which I mentor include people who are new to the field of market search, neuroscience. But also we have a very strong intern program at Immersion and so I find a lot of opportunity to do mentorship through there as well. I always try to say yes anytime anyone wants to have an informational interview. I don’t know if I should put that out there so broadly but it’s absolutely true. When I was growing up and breaking into the industry, and even into, trying to figure out what I wanted to do, we didn’t have the benefit of LinkedIn. LinkedIn wasn’t what it is today. And so I always encourage people to utilize that avenue to get in touch with people where they can actually learn from them and get some guidance on what they might wanna do.

[00:06:02]

Jamin Brazil: It’s super interesting how LinkedIn has completely democratized access to anyone. I’m constantly amazed at who I’m able to get access to. It’s like there’s no barrier. There’s no gatekeeper to that individual.

[00:06:14]

Laura Beavin-Yates: It’s a beautiful thing. I always again anytime anyone reaches out, I try to let them know that I’m a resource. And I actually have really an interesting story. Not long ago on another podcast that I was listening to Hidden Brain. And they were talking about how the woman who he was interviewing had broken into the White House by just sending a cold message on LinkedIn.

[00:06:34]

Jamin Brazil: Oh my god.

[00:06:35]

Laura Beavin-Yates: All power to her.

[00:06:38]

Jamin Brazil: That is super interesting. So the other thing I wanted to ask about, it sounds like you’re getting direct experience with the next generation, Gen Z as they’re entering into the workforce?

[00:06:49]

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah, absolutely. And again we are so lucky we partner with a lot of different organizations and educational institutions to bring in interns. But we work, our co-founder actually teaches right now at USC. We work with UCLA undergraduate institutions. And so for me it’s really important that we be able to share knowledge. We at Immersion we’re a startup, and it’s a very unique business but also very fast-paced. So much to learn, so much opportunity to really be in the thick of things. And so it’s been great. We get people from all different spaces and it’s been great to try to help extend success and make connections for people who are very deserving.

[00:07:36]

Jamin Brazil: And the other part, and this episode is obviously not about Gen Z. But the other part that I’m finding really interesting is they have a very different cultural reference point because they are the first digital first generation. Growing up completely differently really than most of any other generation, maybe half of millennials. But in that framework, I think there’s a lot for us to learn and make sure that we’re paying attention to as quite literally their framework and view of the world is so different.

[00:08:01]

Laura Beavin-Yates: Absolutely. And honestly when we, every time that I have conversations with our interns I tell them we want their ideas as well. I’ve worked in, I’ve had interns and managed interns in many of my past positions and there were varying opportunities to get involved in things. And in every company that I was at, we always tried to get them heavily involved. But I really, I can’t reiterate enough to that, the interns that we have who join us at Immersion that again because we’re a startup, we want their unique ideas about how to talk to people, about ways that, finding value in things that are unique. Utilizing our technology for unique things that they can apply in their own lives for example. So absolutely, you’re absolutely right. They’ve got a unique view and bring a lot of great insight I think into the way that we look at things at Immersion.

[00:08:50]

Jamin Brazil: So what did you learn from your time sheltering in place that you will carry forward if things are opening up?

[00:08:58]

Laura Beavin-Yates: So many things. I think that it’s really interesting. There are things definitely that I learned about how to function. So Immersion was a remote company before the pandemic began, but we also were really when it came to trying to meet in person. The interns I would always meet with them at least once a week in person. And I realized I think even more than ever in the pandemic when we didn’t have those opportunities the importance of both communicating and also connecting. So when you don’t have the opportunity to go and meet at a coffee shop, or you don’t have an office that has that water cooler spot where you can chat with your coworkers, or you can’t pop over to their desk. The value of being able to connect with your coworkers more deeply is so important. So communicating to make sure that they’re doing OK. Asking them how their weekend went. Getting not overly personal, but also personal enough so that you feel like you’re really forging a deeper relationship with them. That’s something that I think is really important that we do naturally when we’re in person. And I think that as we continue to even go in person or be hybrid, the importance of that is really gonna be at the forefront of my mind. The other thing that I think has really become, and I know you’ve probably heard this before, is the time management. So obviously working at home full-time without having that flexibility of going to in person meetings etcetera, it’s hard to switch off sometimes. And so for me, I’ve really had to work hard to try to set some guidelines to really make sure that the time also that I’m spending at work, I’m doing it effectively. I’m blocking time so I make sure that I’m getting the work done that I need to which may not always involve being on phone calls or Zoom calls or etcetera. I actually read a really interesting quote the other day from so Melinda Gates book. I’m a little bit behind the ball on reading that. But her mom used to say you should plan your schedule or someone else will. And that really resonated with me because it’s so important to have an open schedule and to be able to meet with people especially in a customer success space which is my arm of the business. But at the same time, you need the time to think deeply. And if you don’t set that time out, then it will escape you regularly.

[00:11:16]

Jamin Brazil: I think that’s really true. I wanna talk a little bit about the first point that you made which is funny. I’ve never seen it play out like this or even recognized that it was happening until quite literally two weeks ago. It used to be the case when we were meeting in person, we just naturally built connection and it sort of happened almost subconsciously. But then when we moved to shelter in place, there was this immense intentionality around making sure that we were exercising this muscle of empathy. And that extended not just to our peers and employees etcetera, but even into our customers lives, and then into ours. And now coming back into it, I’m actually really excited and I’m bullish on our industry because I do feel like we are more connected today than we were two years ago.

[00:12:03]

Laura Beavin-Yates: I think you’re right. I think we think more deeply about it. So I think your point about, before I think it was something that was somewhat inherent. But at the same time, I think there was an assumption of empathy and an assumption of deep connection just happening. And I think that when it comes to the pandemic, I think we’ve all realized A that we need that deeper connection, and B that it takes a little bit of work to empathize and to try to put yourself in other people’s shoes. But at the same time we see it every day. At the beginning of the pandemic, one of my favorite things is actually to see my clients when I’m on a Zoom call have their kids come in the room. I love that because it’s humanizing and it helps I think level set for all of us. It’s really, the pandemic we’re all going through something together and so we have that deeper connection because it’s a shared experience, that oftentimes pre-pandemic we didn’t really recognize. It just happened innately.

[00:13:06]

Jamin Brazil: We’ve definitely had the benefit of getting a small window into the lives of the people that we’ve been zooming or whatever platform. Let’s talk about data joints, they’re on the rise. This has been something I’ve been talking a lot about because I’m hearing it a lot. Microsoft other, quite literally every corporate researcher that I’ve been interviewing has said that it’s no longer acceptable to just provide a single primary data set as the foundation of the work, that obviously is foundational. But there’s a lot of context that is being created. So every market research report is now referencing more than primary data. It’s, again it’s just this triangulation even though that denotes three of truth. How are you guys measuring and reporting unconscious neurological connections especially in context of real-time?

[00:13:55]

Laura Beavin-Yates: So you’re absolutely right. We are seeing, when it comes to data joints, we’re seeing more and more people also look for multiple inputs to really have confidence in the insights that they’re getting. And at Immersion, what we offer actually is a complement to a lot of those more traditional data streams whether it be quantitative, qualitative, or other types of large scale data that might be gathered from behavioral observations etcetera. At Immersion what we’re doing is we are offering our customers a platform that enables them to measure using a smartwatch that consumers already own, to passively measure whether or not their consumers are emotionally connecting with an experience or a piece of content. We have customers who are using us to measure messaging, advertisements, websites, shopping experiences. Basically any opportunity where they want a deeper understanding of how their consumers are emotionally connecting to an experience, there’s an opportunity for us to help provide them with that deeper level of information. And as you mentioned, we’re collecting this data second by second and it’s output in real-time. So our platform when respondents or when consumers are participating in a study, basically they’ve downloaded an app to their phone, they’ve given the OK on their smartwatch to have data passively collected. And then they go through the experience in a natural way while we are passively capturing that reaction. The benefit of that is that we don’t have to ask them how they felt about something that they experienced ten minutes ago, 15 minutes ago. We don’t have to interrupt the experience in the moment to ask them how it’s connecting with them. But again instead we have a passive way to capture that. And again, we have so many people who are using this as a complement to the rich data that they’re already getting for more traditional techniques.

[00:16:05]

Jamin Brazil: Does it have application in mental health?

[00:16:07]

Laura Beavin-Yates: So we have absolutely had conversations in the space of mental health. In addition to measuring whether or not an emotional connection is happening, we are also measuring psychological safety. And psychological safety is really that extent to which you feel comfortable and confident in the scenario that you’re in. And so there are a lot of opportunities in the mental health space. The primary place where we’re having those conversations right now is in the partnerships arm of our organization. So we’re talking to a number of companies about the opportunity to embed Immersion and psychological safety into apps that they already own.

[00:16:45]

Jamin Brazil: That’s interesting. And then the data that you’re getting on the experience, so the reaction to the experience, is there a baseline at a per person level that’s established and then the reaction measured against that?

[00:17:03]

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah. That’s a really great question. We do. We collect a baseline for every person that we’re measuring. And actually the way that our platform works is that we provide an aggregate measure of reactions to an experience or to content. And we usually bucket things as either a live experience for example maybe you’re going to a concert or doing shopping or on a website. But basically we aggregate that data so that you can look at the trend for the group. You can understand how a group of people are responding so that you get those rich insights and can generalize those of course to your target consumers. And so in order to be able to aggregate that data, it’s important to collect that baseline from each individual, because of course everyone has differing levels of the extent to which they get very excited about something. They get very immersed in something. That’s actually the name of one of our outputs. One of my colleagues is a very laid-back guy who gets excited about some things but my level of enthusiasm is much higher. So ultimately you wanna make sure that you’re eliminating those individual differences that happen so that you really, that happen physiologically so that we’re really getting a brain read of the reaction to the experience.

[00:18:18]

Jamin Brazil: Normalizing that data is super valuable. And being able to create that is such a significant win. Can you give me a specific example? I know we only have a few minutes and we’ve talked a lot about this. But a specific example of a recent project.

[00:18:33]

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah, absolutely. So we’re actually working right now with a client who is working on some website optimization. And so in addition to their traditional testing where they’re looking at an A and B version of a website, they’re also using Immersion to understand, what about that experience is yielding a strong connection? And what’s potentially causing those consumers to disengage at certain points? So really we’re looking at connection but you can also think of it like we’re looking at the brain getting value from an experience versus not getting value, and then bailing out because the brain has better things to do. We’re constantly bombarded with things through the world and so it’s really important to be able to know that you’re breaking through and not gonna lose the consumer. So again in this case this customer is looking basically at Immersion, in conjunction with that behavioral data as the different consumers are going through different website experiences, to understand points of friction where people may be abandoning. But also to understand whether or not key messaging is connecting with their target audiences, and how they need to optimize that potentially to connect with different types of audiences.

[00:19:43]

Jamin Brazil: Let’s pull back. What do you see as common methodologies that are being used today? And why do you think they’re being used?

[00:19:52]

Laura Beavin-Yates: So we again partner with a lot of different types of methodologies we, that are more traditional market research approaches. So for example, quantitative style testing. And these can be in person the qualitative, virtual. We’ve had customers who are embedding us in their quantitative surveys and allowing people to view content asynchronously while their reactions are measured to the content whether it be movie trailers, or messages, or brand concepts, animatics. You name it. And then on the qualitative side of things, again this could be in focus groups, in one-on-one interviews that are done in person or virtually. We’ve had in person shopping experiences, online shopping experiences. It’s really exciting because my former life was in market research, so it always makes me really happy to be able to support those types of projects where again by pairing Immersion with those more traditional techniques, they get that additional layer to answer hard questions that might be harder to answer with those different approaches.

[00:20:53]

Jamin Brazil: Last question. What is your personal motto?

[00:20:56]

Laura Beavin-Yates: My goodness. That’s a hard one. My personal motto I would say, well I’m working on shifting it a little bit. So my personal motto used to be to always say yes. One of the other learnings that I’ve had coming out of the pandemic is that I want to always say yes. But as things get busier in a startup and the world is opening up and there are a lot of things to balance, I’m learning that sometimes I have to embrace no. So lately it’s been embrace no when appropriate. But I think beyond that it’s really just to help make the world a better place. And that sounds really cheesy but at the same time, our company mission is about fostering connection and helping people form deeper connections with their consumers. And anytime that, if I go back to the mentorship, any time I can help connect someone else or help someone else learn something that will help them have a better life, that is something that I find personal reward from. So if it’s not making someone else happy or working toward that, then it’s something that I try not to put my time toward.

[00:22:08]

Jamin Brazil: My guest today has been Laura Beavin Yates, SVP of customer success at Immersion. Laura thank you for joining me today.

[00:22:17]

Laura Beavin-Yates: Thank you so much again for having me. It’s been a pleasure talking to you.