IIeX North America 2019

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Patricia Houston – MMR Live

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Patricia Houston, Founder and Chief Operating Officer at MMR Live.

Contact Patricia Online:


MMR Live


Patricia Houston.  We were live at IIeX.  MMR Live is the name of the company.  She is the founder and Chief Operating Officer.  Enjoy the episode.


My guest today on the Happy Market Research Podcast is Patricia Houston; MMR.Live is where you find them online.  Tell me a little bit about what you guys are doing.


Sure.  So, MMR Live is only about ten months old now.  We’re a startup within an established market research company that’s 20 years old, MMR Research, the ones in Atlanta, not the UK.  But our focus is on experience. So we’re on a mission to improve every experience, be that retail, digital, physical events. That’s my world, and that’s where we love to live.     


Perfect.  Like an older company…  And now, is it a rebrand or a division?  


Division, a new team.  And partly why I did it…  It’s not just my passion ‘cause my background is in experiential marketing.  That’s how I started as bringing my two careers together. But it’s also about future-proofing.  So, if we think about all the consolidation we’ve seen in the panel space, you know panel is changing; it’s always going to continue to change.  So how long until panel is no more? And getting somebody to answer one direct feedback question is too much?     




That’s what we’re trying to solve for.


That’s a really interesting point right now.  I don’t know if you heard the Greyhound presentation.




So, they were talking about when they were going through the activation stage of their research, they wound up moving from a 20-minute longitudinal study to a 2-minute survey.  And – this is what’s interesting – they saw no degradation of insights that they were able to get out of between the two. So, there was like no negative tradeoff, except that it was a much better experience and the data that they pulled out of the 2-minute survey was so accessible to the larger organization they improved their net promoter score by 20 points. 


Oh, that’s incredible.


It just speaks to the importance of thinking about a respondent’s point of view and the better that we do, I think, servicing them, then the better their information is that they’re going to provide us to do stuff. 


And that’s right, and it’s all part of your brand, right?  So every interaction you have with the consumer, even if it’s a research survey, that’s part of your marketing.  It’s part of your brand-building.  


It’s so funny that you bring this up.  So, actually my first brand plant was a company called Intuit, is a company called Intuit, which, of course, you’ve heard of (QuickBooks, Quicken), largest S&B company, I believe.  So, they started their research-based organization. If you know anything about the up-and-comings of that company, market research is a core tenet; consumer insights is a core tenet.  One of the things that I found that was real interesting as I was working with them as they were installing online surveys in the early 2000s as the main way of doing consumer insights:  we were touching about each customer 1 to 2 times a year, and some customers as many as 16 times in a year. Now, we were touching those customers almost as much as marketing was touching the customer.   


That’s right, and if you add those marketing touch points on top of your touch points…


Huge win.


Yeah, I mean what is that?  Picking the right context…  We’re actually doing some work now pro bono with the Zoo–Atlanta.  We’re based out of Atlanta, so Zoo–Atlanta.  They are in a big period of construction. So they engaged us, knowing that their member base is a group of people they really need to retain.  So, we’ve come in. They did have an ongoing survey, and it was similar to what you talked about: the 20-minute, have to ask all these strategic questions after every visit.  Our advisement to them was, “Hey, guys, we can really shorten this. Let’s pull some of this stuff out. We’ll do a strategic study once a year. We don’t have to ask those questions all the time,” and helped them really focus to understand how to protect that member base.        


Oh, I love that.  So, you were part of the company before the MMR.Live or were you brought in when that division was started?


No, I’m part of it.  So, I’ve actually been with MMR Research for almost nine years now.


Got it.


So, yeah, this is just my newest project.


Got it. Totally.  How’s it going?


It’s going well.  We feel like we did a little pivot a couple of months ago and realized that the work that we thought we were going to be doing, which was more live events, probably not the right space to start.  We’ve been working a lot with service designers, innovation teams, R&D teams. That’s kind of a sweet spot for us. But seems like things are starting to click, and we’re going to put a rebrand out soon or refresh, excuse me.  (Not changing the name or anything) So we’re excited for what the summer can hold.    


That’s very exciting.  What does your ideal customer look like?


That’s a great question.  In terms of where we’re heading for now, there’s two.  So, most of the time, it’s not a researcher. So, we bring the research expertise to the table.  Frankly, we might work through the research department, but it’s in-store environment teams, innovation teams, R&D, probably more in the service side, less the product side.  Either them or we’re also working with experiential agencies, experiential brand owners.


Interesting.  How was the show for you guys?


The show’s been good.  This is my fifth year here at IIeX, the North America show.  And it’s always a tech partnership hunt for us because…


What are you looking for?


It’s a little bit different this year than it has been in the past.  We don’t have any of our own tech. So we need folks, and it’s hard to find that are going to enable us to do in-person research in the moment with technology.  I’d love more offline options. And I can find some ‘cause we do no panel work; parent company does. Most of our work is not online; we’re in-person; we’re actually talking to folks.  So more human technologies. Like this year there’s always the proliferation of like the automated sample or the automated stuff, which I think is very important work in the MR space.   




But from our standpoint, it’s more about bringing the human back in.  


Got it.  I like that a lot.  If you think about what market research has historically been, it’s just a conversation at scale, and it’s largely just a logistics exercise, especially when you start moving in the survey world.  What I’m seeing and have been for the last three, four years is a rise of quantitative. I reduce it down to the A-B testing and this versus that. And the problem that is we don’t understand the “why.”  And so, through that human connection, you can start getting… And there’s something that’s different with like you and I, sitting across from each other like we are right now versus me sending you a set of questions and you responding to them in an email, right?  This is such a different experience. You and I both are going to be able to, and even the audience is going to be able to pull some real interesting stuff out of this conversation. So, you wouldn’t otherwise if I just provided some transcripts of your answers.  


That’s right, and the scale thing is interesting ‘cause the DraftKings presentation (I’m not sure if you caught that on Day 1)…  She was actually talking about (Annie was her name) talking about how they have integrated with R&D and product teams and the data’s messy; there’s a lot of observation, small sample size.  And guys, that’s OK.




It’s still questions.  All this UX, IX, CX, MRX – we’re all just asking questions.  


Totally.  I love that.  That’s a great one to go out on.  If somebody wants to get in contact with you, how would they do that?


Sure.  You’ve mentioned they can reach us on the web at MMR.Live.  If they’d like to shoot me an email, PHouston (like the city) @MMR.Live as well.   


Patricia Houston, MMR Live, thanks so much for being on the show.


Appreciate it.  Thanks so much.


All you Happy Market Researchers, do me a favor and “Like” this episode.  Go on the platform of your choice. Also, screen shot, share it on social media.  It’s how other people like you are able to find it. I really appreciated it. This is Jamin Brazil signing off for what, I think, is the last episode I’m going to be doing for IIeX in Austin.  Have a great rest of your day. 

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Vignesh Krishnan – SampleChain

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Vignesh Krishnan, CEO of SampleChain.

Contact Vignesh Online:




Vignesh Krishnan, SampleChain.  This is a young startup. This guy is bringing a breath of relevant expertise to the market research space.  He’s an early employee of Lucid. After leaving that, he started this DMP, which is a Data Management Platform that is intent on connecting sample and tools to improve overall source transparency and, ultimately, quality, which I know is a really important issue based on the interviews I’ve done.  Enjoy the episode and the conversation with him.


So, my guest today is Vignesh Krishnan, SampleChain.  We are live today at IIeX in Austin. What do you think about the show?


So far, so good.  I went to one of the conferences.  Again, it’s all about meeting the people and listening in.  So, it was pretty enjoyable, yeah.


Yeah, I think in business you really only have a single piece of IP, and that is your connections.  


Yes, I would agree.  Absolutely.


And there’s probably not a better venue from my vantage point than events like IIeX.


Yeah, for sure, yeah.  Well, Andrew got me on the podcast.  So, there you go. That’s a connection, right?  


You know that’s true actually.  That’s funny. Andrew with Lucid.  So, in a year, how many of these events or events like this do you wind up going to?


Yeah, so I just started SampleChain; it’s been about six to eight months since I started it.  I’ve been to SampleCon, and IIeX as well; so, this is the second one. I would say I’m probably going to Insights Association too.         


Alright, cool.  Yeah, Insights Association has a great…  Of course, a different organization (GreenBook, apologies) but they also have some really good, unique shows.           


Absolutely.  And it is in the backyard in New Orleans; so, I’m just going to walk across the street and go to that one as well.


So, you’re based out of New Orleans.


Yes, I’m in New Orleans.


OK, perfect.  Well, tell me about SampleChain.


So, my background, you know…  Starting with the New Orleans story, I graduated from Tulane about ten years ago, the local university there.  And I got into Lucid pretty early joining it at the company; had and saw amazing growth. And then, after a while, decided that, “You know what?  I just want to try something new.” I did see there was a lot of analogies that we made as an industry to the ad tech industry. So in a way, the idea is to introduce a DMP to the space.  Just like ad tech has DMP’s, so that’s kind of…


Maybe, you can expand on what that is for our audience.


Yeah, absolutely.  So, a DMP is a Data Management Platform, and what it does is that it is… It has tentacles into different parts of the industry like the exchanges, and the suppliers, and the buyers, and so on and so forth.  And specifically, I’m talking about the ad tech advertising industry. And the idea here is to help all of these participants understand their traffic sources better. Are they all getting attacked by bots, for example?  Are they having issues with conversion that could do better with some piece of information? So the idea is to create that entity and provide that information to these clients.


That’s beautiful.  So, you’ve been at it just under a year.


Yep, exactly.  Something like that.


Did you guys come out the gate with funding or…?


So, we got some funding:  local funding, Angel Funding from New Orleans.  So, I did that for about the first few months is where I was focusing on.  Most of that, like I said, is from the Angel Network. So, pretty recent happenings, all of this.   


Got it.  I mean I’ve got to ask…  Lucid – you were there early.  Growing gang busters. They’re just crushing it.  They’re defining a space, right? I mean it’s a really unique point of view.  Why is the world would you jump ship to start your own? Is it just like entrepreneurship is in your blood?  


Yeah, well, part of it is that, but a more honest reason is that the longer I stayed there, I had more people joining my team who were 13, 14, 15 years younger than me.  I was like, “Oh, my God, I’ve been here too long.” So, some of them had actually been in middle school when I joined Lucid. And I was like, “Oh, my God, how are you even here?”  So I was like, “You know what? It’s time to start a new adventure.” Obviously, I was there for a long time. Really enjoyed my experience there. Still in touch with all of them, of course.  But decided, that from a life perspective, probably wanted to take a second step here. So…


So, congratulations, by the way.  From my vantage point as a life-long entrepreneur, there’s nothing scarier than the first two years.  I mean it is freaking terrifying. And the nice part about age is we know that there’s cycles, and if we can just suck it up long enough, the weather changes.  


Yep, you see the other side.  Absolutely.


Exactly, exactly right.  So I think that’s definitely a leg-up.  At least, in my thesis.


Well, I’ll take it.


So, tell me who is your ideal customer.


So, you can segment the marketplace into multiple different ways.  Using ad tech as an analogy, I would say you have the publisher’s side, and we make the analogy here to suppliers.  You have the exchanges and then, of course, you have the buyers, and then you have the buyer’s buyer (the end brands and so on and so forth).  So, obviously, depending on how well this thing goes, our long-term plan would be to work with all of these aspects, for now, just focusing on the supply side, focusing on the exchanges.  Of course, these would be the suppliers that we all know and love (panel companies and then, of course, the exchanges as well).


So, the value that you’re adding to that particular piece of the chain is increased transparency.


Yes, helping increase transparency, helping these suppliers have a better handle on quality, helping these suppliers have a better handle on availability and knowledge of their respondents is where we’re going.  That’ll be the first step, yeah.


Got it.  Yeah, that’s kind of interesting.  So, what does your pitch look like when you’re sitting in front of those people?  I usually start with the story arc of like, “Here’s the pain point.” Right and then, “Here’s the solution.”


At the end of the day, I think that we all want more completes; we want more transactions to be successful.    




And I would say that right now, I don’t know what that number is, but I can tell you that it’s probably between 10%, 15%, 20% at max.  There’s 80 times a person tries to finish a survey; they do not. And our goal is to help those companies get those numbers up, right? And, hopefully, push the ball significantly higher.  If you can get to 30%, 40%, 50%, right? And the goal here is to push up these conversions and, of course, that turns in money and then that can be reinvested into the business as well. So that would be my pitch to these companies, “Hey, you know what?  If only 15% to 20% of your supply’s completing, that is a problem. How do you push this number up?”


Are you guys at this stage in the business building out the technology or are you actually selling?  


No, we’re selling it.  Got a head start. Pretty much started quoted with this on

Day 1.  Some of the guys that we all worked with before.  So, that also has an advantage as you know.


Any names you could drop?


Miguel and Jimson are two of the developers on the board.  They were colleagues from back in the day. So, I’ve been working with them.  I’ve been getting a lot of help from Chuck Miller, who is, obviously, part of our industry, and he’s very passionate about quality and these kinds of things.  So, I’ve been working with him too.


That’s fantastic.  If someone wants to get in contact with you, how would they do that?


So, either email or phone.  So, first name Vignesh, so first letter first name, so VKrishanan@samplechain.co.  And the number is a New Orleans number:  so,



You have to wear a party hat if you dial that number.


Exactly, absolutely.  


So, my guest today has been Vignesh, SampleChain.  Check him out. Information is in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining me today on the Happy Market Research Podcast.  


Thank you, Jamin.

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Tom Anderson – OdinAnswers

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Tom Anderson, Founder, Executive Chairman & CRO at OdinAnswers.

Contact Tom Online:




Tom Anderson, OdinAnswers is the name of his company; OdinTexts was prior to the IIeX event.  Huge fan of this guy. He and I co-presented at a few different events: the CEO Summit a few years ago is probably the most recent.  Tell you what: I consider him to be the father of text analytics in this space. He has this interesting point of view about how we should be triangulating truth based on multiple data sources, including KPIs and customer voice.  Enjoy the episode.


Here with Tom Anderson, OdinAnswers is the new name of your company, sir.  We’re live at IIeX in Austin. How are you?


Great.  Thanks for having me.


Yeah, of course.  It’s an honor to have you.  You’ve been the pioneer, I think, in this space.  I can’t think of another company anyway as it relates with text analytics.  Talk to me a little bit about OdinTexts, now OdinAnswers, and that journey.


Well, from the get-go, we were very much about realizing that good text, interesting text data never lives in isolation.  There’s always important structured data accompanying it. Twitter might be a little bit of an exception, but pretty much all other interesting data has very valuable structured components.  So, that was our thinking from the get-go in the patents and so forth that I filed. But now we’re taking that to the next level. We’ve been working with a lot of cutting-edge, digital-first clients and really looking at more and more data, so connecting different data types and variables to really get to what an answer is.  And that’s what’s reflected in the company: really trying to combine and think about the topics that people talk about in their own voice, unaided, what’s most important to them (thoughts and feelings) together with who it is, all the segmentation-type variables. And then the third part is the KPI. And so, some of our clients, for that, it’s return behavior, clicks on a link, or revenue is the holy grail.  But, for others, it might be MPS or customer sat. And then, there’s always, of course, emotions and sentiment to fall back on in the events where there aren’t important KPIs.


We’ve evolved as an industry, right, because you were around before AWS, well before.




So, I mean you’ve seen a lot of new tech that’s been entering this space here, specifically in the way of text analytics.  And you guys have rebranded, which I think was a brilliant… I love OdinAnswers; I think that’s such an action-oriented framework versus OdinTexts now.  Not to say that there’s anything wrong with that. I think it’s just modernization and change of what the customer really needs right now. How are you helping customers like…  Let’s pick on NPS ‘cause it’s a super common use case, right? So, how are you interacting with that data to add that value to the customer.


So, NPS, a lot of clients can add a lot of data from other sources.  So, what they have internally first and foremost might be CRM or data on how much these customers have purchased, how frequently they purchase, what they purchase, that type of thing.  And then, of course, you can go beyond that to other data as well. But that is one of the things we’ve been working hard on and continuing to move in that direction.


Got it.          


And in terms of the industry overall, yeah, I mean there’s been…  I think there’s a new (definitely don’t want to call it a bubble because I believe it’s absolutely…  it’s sort of finally the time of text analytics, in fact.) So, there’s a lot of new companies coming in this space.  Text analytics has become a feature in products as I predicted, in fact, it would many years ago. But it’s, obviously, a nice companion to AI machine learning, and that’s partly what we’re seeing here is applying richer data.  And data can’t be thought of just as structured or unstructured; it’s really what I had been calling mixed data before. But we’re thinking about it more as intersectionality of an answer. And that’s why we rebranded.


Do you think there’s a like…  As you look forward to your future, do you feel like you’re more of an API-driven enabler like plugging in to a Qualtrics or a…  you know what I’m saying, like some of these mega-platforms and enabling that particular sentiment analysis to be done?


Yeah, absolutely.  We’ve always been impartial to data.  There’s other players out there like in social listening and so forth that really only work with the data stream from Twitter or something like that.  Whereas, we have clients now who are typing in all kinds of information, yes, some social certainly and NPS and survey data, customer experience, but also call center (we’ve got people analyzing their sales) and internal (we’re analyzing emails coming in and out between different departments and between customers).      


I mean that’s really interesting the whole email analytics side of things.  I know you probably can’t share specifics, but what are some broad findings going through that?  Do you remember?


They are using it for various types of…  understanding, first of all, what kinds of issues that are being discussed and what questions people have, not just customers but also employees to streamline things.  And then there’s, of course, looking ahead as well. So, it’s something that’s quite… We’ve been doing that for actually a couple of years now, two years, two-and-a-half years.  And now we’re starting with integrating voice as well, you know, call centers and so forth, voice-to-text.


That so interesting.  We don’t hear very much in this space about voice-to-text, but I think that’s funny.  I feel like voice-to-text should be something we’re frickin talking about all the time.  Honestly, that is such as important… The amount of information that’s being… What are they predicting?  It’s stupid; it’s like 80 billion dollars in 2023 will be spent through Alexa and GoogleHome, you know, through the smart speakers.  Siri, what was it? Samsung just announced their own automated voice platform. You’ve got all the voices playing such a big role right now in our lives.  And it’s growing, and yet we’re as a market research industry aren’t really talking that. In fact, I’m sure it exists here, but I haven’t run into one company that specializes in voice-based research here at IIeX.   


Yeah, so I mean, it used to be different disciplines before.  And we didn’t set out to solve the voice-to-text. In the application I’m think about, we’re also doing machine translation at the same time also.  Now, those two components are coming from another company, but we’ve built the harness that then brings it from them, from their call center, gets both transcribed and translated, and then into our program for them.  So, it’s pretty exciting. But we didn’t invent the other two disciplines though, obviously, they’re very complementary.   


Awesome, super awesome.  So, your team has been evolving in the last twelve months.  Talk to me a little bit about… You’ve got some board changes, I think, additions; you’ve got maybe some new hires.  How’s that been evolving?


Most notably, of course, our new CEO last year, Andy Greenawalt, who had a lot of experience from starting SAS companies in a couple of different industries and has some really outside-the-box thinking.  So it’s really helping us evolve and, of course, more recently, Steve August of Revelation formerly, joined our board. And he’s a great… You’ve worked with him, of course, yourself.


I’m one of his biggest fans.


Yeah, he’s great.  So, the team is growing; we have a really good team.  A lot of the people have been with me for a while, and they’re super.  And we’re adding more people as well.


That’s great.  Tom, if somebody wants to get in contact with you, how would they do that?


The website is now OdinAnswers.com.  So, you can fill out the form there. We have a white paper:  OdinAnswers.com/mission.


That was just released at IIeX – the white paper.


Yeah, we’ve had a tremendous amount of downloads, I noticed, just in the first day.  Interesting. We’re actually running two round table discussions about what is an answer.  I’m not talking about from the perspective of the respondent again; we’re talking about for us as market researchers.  What is a great answer that makes you a hero? What needs to be in there? We’re looking to, of course, share our thoughts on that but also looking to understand what market researchers think about that.


Perfect.  Thank you so much for being on the Happy Market Research Podcast, Tom.


Thank you so much.

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Tim Lawton – SightX

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Tim Lawton, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of SightX.

Contact Tim Online:




Tim Lawton, SightX, solid company.  This firm has been… has the best actually UX for analytics that I have seen.  It is absolutely beautiful, and they have created a lot of shortcuts in statistics that let you get to key insights.  It’s almost like Big Data for Dummies, and I don’t want to take away from the power behind the tool. I spent a lot of time with Tim and his co-founder, talking about the statistical side.  I’m not a statistician – nor am I claiming to be – but, having said that, having worked in this space for so long, you get inundated with these types of requests. And they have created some really cool technology.  If you’re in the insights space, you absolutely should check out because it is impressive tech. Enjoy.


My guest today on the Happy Market Research Podcast is Tim Lawton, founder, I think.


Yes, co-founder of SightX.


I got to spend a lot of time with your counterpart last night before dinner.  Very intrigued with the story. You guys had spent almost two years in stealth mode right before you came up.  So, maybe, you could talk to us a little bit about why you guys started SightX, what you saw as the market opportunity, the white space, and the pain point.  And then walk us through that sort of journey of going dormant for the R&D phase.


Sure.  So, the intriguing part of the story is certainly on Naira’s side.  A lot of what we’re doing is her background in research. But when we started initially the onset was solving for a broader problem in the general research process of everything from the data collection to analyzing the data.  At the end of the day, the idea was to automate a lot of those processes for (1) for researchers but, more importantly and equally important, is for non-technical people. So that there’s a level of analysis that’s possible, especially when you talk about market research or any sort of end-user engagement.  So much information nowadays can and is collected that a lot of times what’s valuable and insightful there (to use a key word that everybody is familiar with) is not always easy to do because it takes a lot of time and the level of expertise. So we set out to democratize that expertise, for lack of a better description, for users and researchers of all types and skill levels, everyone to get to that end state of the data that’s been cleaned, coded, organized, and analyzed so that our clients and users can do what they were presumably hired to do:  which is to think creatively, strategically about their brand, their company, their organization but a lot of that time spent as we see as inefficient in that process. So SightX was designed to add efficiencies and augment teams and help teams get to that end state faster by bringing them from the data collection to the analysis and reporting all in one platform.


It’s like from my vantage point…  I have a weak background in statistics…


Myself included.


…more of a practitioner, actor versus like a…  but you know I understand and all that kind of stuff.  So, I’ve done a fair amount of regression modeling and whatever in my early career.  What I really like about the value prop is statistics can be hard and daunting, but what you guys do is take all that out.  But what you leave behind is the actual connection to the data.




So, it’s like: “These are the five things that are driving customer behavior or purchase intent.”  And you don’t care about the necessarily. Well, you might care about it, but you guys are processing all that data and then displaying it in a way that is accessible to somebody who is a non-statistician.


Right, and that’s, I think, the valuable and important point is that whether you’re a statistician or not, I think the value prop still remains the same because if you understand it, you have a background in statistics, that’s great.  You can do the work, which is great and good for you and your team, but it still takes time. And it still takes that process of setting up the data, organizing the data in such a way so that you can run all that analysis on it. And again, if you’re still doing it yourself, it is a time-consuming process.  Equally on the other side, if you’re not trained and have a strong background in statistics, it’s going to take you even more time if you even are able to get to that step. So to be able to get everybody, whether you’re a trained statistician or not through that process seamlessly to give you that, as you said, the end state of that processing and analysis is, that’s the important side.               


So, you hired a good friend of mine, Daryl McCall.    




Congratulations on that smart move.  


Yes, every day it’s become more and more apparent how smart it was.  So, it’s just great.


It’s so neat to have him in charge.  And I don’t know actually exactly where he fits in the organizationalbut to have somebody who’s been through the startup phase to successful exit, to successful entry into a larger organization, understands high-performance culture:  those are rare people. And the other thing that’s congratulations on is having a not just competent but highly engaging co-founder. Really interested in how you guys came together and then…  I mean that’s… So, one of the things… I coach a number of different startups. And one of the things that’s always a pain point for early stage is that co-founder relationship. Can you talk about how you guys met?  


We… I know it’s true, and I have a lot of friends who have started companies.  And I’ve seen from the outside different dynamics in companies and their founding stories.  So I count myself one of the lucky ones. So, Naira and I, long story short, met through friends of friends at a fund raising in New York City.  Actually, realized that we’re both mountain climbers at the time; so struck up a friendship around those kinds of common, shared interests; had actually climbed together before starting SightX or Frontier 7, formerly known as Frontier 7, when we first started.  And then through those activities and kind of just shared interests and friendships, started talking about, like most people do, problems or ideas they had, things they wanted to solve for, and then that led to, “Maybe, we should put this on paper. We should start thinking about this a little more deeply.”  And started looking at the market opportunity. And that’s how we continued to evolve. But I think why we work well together is because we’re so different. One: we don’t come for market research backgrounds, either of us. And two: we come from completely different backgrounds ourselves. She in more of an academic setting and working part-time in consulting; myself in the military and then finance.  So, approaching a problem from two completely different angles from a clean slate, I’ll say, I think has served us well. So, those two years you mentioned where we were operating mostly in stealth mode was a lot of conversations, interactions with potential clients within market research but also in other industries and fields. We had an early platform; we had non-profits using it; we had a big company for HR purposes, so really evaluating a lot a different applications for it, which is one of the great things to realize that there’s a lot of applications for what we’re doing but targeting it towards a use case that was (1) more appealing to us.  But a bigger commercial opportunity, more diverse set of use cases for us was more appealing. By taking those different backgrounds and different skill sets I think has served us well ‘cause we both enjoy doing different things, which is nice.

And then Daryl was really a serendipitous introduction, but I think, to your point, was one of the biggest value-adds in that he understands early stage culture in this phase of what we’re going through, which is…  I don’t know how you can say enough about how important that is. To have gone through and understand this phase, to help us get through these next… kind of the future where we’re trying to go. And not only that, with his many years of experience in the space and knowledge about the industry and clients and what’s important, what’s needed and the values that we’re trying to add on and bring has been a huge benefit to us.       


That’s awesome.  So, if somebody wants to get in contact with you, how would they do that?


I’m at Tim@SightX.io and we’re www.SightX.io as well, and there’s a contact form there.  Or, otherwise, come see our booth at IIeX today if you’re still around on Thursday. We’re still here.    


Well, this will air probably a couple of weeks later, but there’ll be another show.  So, Tim, thank you so much. SightX is the name of the company. He told you how to get in contact with him.  Of course, his information will be in show notes. So, feel free to check that out as well as the transcripts of our conversation.  As always, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to screenshot this, share it on social media. If you would please take 60 seconds and rate this show on the podcast platform of your choice, it would help a million people like you – well, at least five.


Six.  No, I’m six.


Six, that’s right.  Find this content and increase our overall value.  Really appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day.


Thanks so much.  Appreciate it.

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Steve Mast – Methodify

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Steve Mast, one of the Founders of Methodify.

Contact Steve Online:




Steve Mast with Methodify.  These guys are just crushing it.  They were the best exhibitors at the event, maybe even at any event I’ve ever attended.  A lot of things that were clever. My favorite was… They had these little stickers, which basically were fill-in-the-blanks.  “This blank has been certified by Methodify.”  And they would write in what it was.  So like, “This water cooler or this cup or this microphone or this coffee pot or this person’s back or whatever…”  It was really funny, created a lot of buzz. Also, it drove my good friend, Matt Gershner, and other GreenBook pros crazy, but, having said that, the entertainment value was huge.  Enjoy the episode.


I have Steve Mast, the founder and CEO?


One of the founders of Methodify, yes.


Methodify.  Yep, that’s right.  So, we’re at IIeX in Austin.  You guys have been here before.


Yes, we have, yes.  First year, we’ve actually done a full activation:  the booth, speaking, all those kinds of things, so…


And you’ve been testing everything according to…


We’ve been testing the water coolers, the food stations.  Yeah, everything’s been Methodified.


I love “This has been Methodified.”  You know that’s an interesting kind of…  OK, so, talk to me a little bit about that.


So, where that actually came out of ‘cause we actually have registered Methodify IT.  So, we’re not an Italian company; we’re actually born out of Canada, right, but Methodify is a global platform.  But the “Methodify it” came out of our clients literally saying, “We want to Methodify it” or “Was that piece of creative or was that new product, was it Methodified?”  So that’s where we actually came up with the whole “Methodify it.” So, it was our clients. So literally we’re listening to our customers, and we’re applying what they’re saying to our marketing and various…           


Isn’t that the best proof of concept? You know you can have this thing like founder-market fit where you have a personalized need, and you recognize it in the marketplace.  “Oh, good, I can solve that need.” But when the market actually starts changing language around your product and your solution, that’s a nice confirmation.


Yeah, I think it was interesting because (I don’t know what your feeling is but…) we’re obviously Methodify is research automation.  Like that’s the space it’s playing in. But I think what’s interesting is the last couple of years everybody’s been, “Yeah, we’re kicking the tires; we’re checking it out; we’re trying things; we’re piloting programs.”  This year I feel a substantial change in that where people are not kicking the tires. Now it’s about “How and when do we implement this?” “Where does it fit within the ecosystem of our market research tools, platforms?”  So I think the whole industry has changed. The other big thing too is (and I think you may have talked about it in other episodes as well) is when you look at the martech industry, right, it’s very mature obviously, but if you look at the research space, now we have this huge rise of research technologies.  And I think the big thing that has to happen is those two industries have to start to move closer together and start embedding research tech inside of martech. So very often, we’ve had some of our clients, if you think of their marketing-operations process, instead of it being a separate thing over somewhere else where you have research basically living on a data lake or living on some other knowledge platform integrating it within the overall process.  So we’ve had the most success where the research tech is actually part of the overall marketing process versus living somewhere else.


OK, this is going to be a longer episode than I thought.


There’s a lot to digest there, for sure.


More my point is, this is a really exciting topic.  So, I actually bought IntegratedInsights.com because it was, you know, cheap, because (and I’ll never use the domain) but I bought it because the…  I can’t get more excited than, except for like with my kids hitting a home run baseball, than… If we can get insights integrated into the workflows of the large organization, then we become really the enablers of insights, which I believe is the biggest missing piece for brands to ultimately deliver the best product or service to their customers.  It’s ultimately – as you articulated so perfectly – martech, adtech, and researchtech, I mean they’re nice classifications but what we really got to do is not just answer on an A/B test “This is bigger than that” but we have to allow the customer to discover the “why” behind that so then they can make decisions that are moving the needle in the right direction from the customer’s point of view and with the understanding of the motivations.       


Yeah, if you look at some of the work (I think you had Adobe on program)…


Yeah, Stacey Walker with Adobe.


She’s fantastic.


She’s pretty good.


When I see what Adobe is even doing in some of their technologies and I think about what we’re doing, that’s when we start to have to bring those pieces together.  We actually have been working with one of our customers in integrating within their design studios a Methodify button. So, literally, while the designer is designing things, they’ve got to test it as they go through the iterations.  Or even in the editing suites, while they’re going through an editing their actual concept or whatever it might be, they actually have the ability to test something within that environment. So it’s seamlessly integrated.


Are you on Twitter very much?




So, I’m super active on Twitter, and I post at least once a week.  I’ll take the time to screenshot when I see an application of integrated insights and then I post it.  This is my post: Is this research? #MRX#marketingresearch. And more often than not, I get push-back from inside of our industry, saying, “Bull****” or whatever, right.  And then you see these two divergent camps. And we just have to own the fact that everybody can do research now. And what we have to do as researchers is protect the integrity of the research.  Now we become largely empowerers at the brand level ‘cause it’s going to happen. When it happens, that research is being done in the right context with the right framework with ultimately the right business insight to drive the right outcome…  And to your point, a designer can’t wait a day to Methodify that point of view. It’s got to be in the workflow at 2 A.M.


What’s interesting is you’re touching on another subject around…  You look at research departments inside of large brands. I’m not going to paint everybody with the same brush, but many of them have such a huge PR problem internally.  Or you look at the marketing product groups, they’re going around them at all costs. So they become these gatekeepers that are holding information back from the people that need that information the most.  So what are they going to do? They’re going to run around; they’re going to use tools; they’re going to write poor research instruments; they’re going to get leading answers; they’re going to get bad data. So, how do we marry these two things?  That’s where I think technology has brought together this beautiful thing where it’s like the researchers can create the instruments for the marketers and the product people and allow them to run as many of these as they want but in a controlled way where they’re actually getting good data.  That’s the whole idea behind the research automation thing. You’re literally black boxing the methodologies, right? So, they can’t mess with the actual, the way the questions are asked. And that’s just human surveying. I mean there’s lots of other ways you can do that as well ‘cause the reality is there are to our point everybody is a researcher now.  Everybody is a consumer insights specialist.


Exactly. Which is not true, but it’s true.


Oh, it’s totally true.  Yeah, absolutely, yeah. To your point, I mean the reason why the researchers needed to have that…  Their job is to say to the marketer or to the decision maker, “That’s a bad idea.” And that’s not always the easy thing to do, right, because you have someone who is super invested in whatever that idea is or that new product, and you’ve got somebody coming along and saying, “You know what?  The consumer just doesn’t like it.” And on the other side, you have people saying, ”Well, what does the consumer need?” or “What do they know?” So this is the challenge, I think. So I think it’s about that iteration, and it’s about all the buzz words you hear now about agile and things like that.  But the marketers are bought into it; now it’s getting the researchers bought into that as well.


Yeah.  So, I actually wrote on LinkedIn a long-form article about this exact subject of where the…  market research still sits in the seat of power. It’s really interesting. I like using Lyft as kind of my go-to example of this.  They’ve got a handful of market researchers, and they’ve got almost tenfold on the UX research side. This is not unique, right? I see it in every organization.  And so, the type of projects that both departments are doing at largely the same. The research department has more of a Ph.D. spin on it, but the others ones are walking like every day in the trenches with the designers that are helping them get to the consumers’ insight, right?  We, as a department, as a function inside of the organization, really have to understand that it’s the role of … We have the opportunity to lead the charge of empowerment inside of the organization and with that I think this is where tools become really powerful because a wiki on how to write a question is not going to get traction but if you embed those best practices into the tool set, now all of a sudden you can create a standardized way of doing “X,” asking this type of question or whatever, right, in the right context, applying the right external data into that – so I’m thinking about like if UX or user experience, excuse me, or UI I think a lot about what part of the app are they interacting with, right?  And what is the specific need? And those are important contexts to understand the real implication of the insight.


But I think you’re touching on something where it’s the tools and the platforms and that’s what we’re all about.  But it’s a mindset that has to shift, right? Once they get past that idea that we’re not the gatekeepers; we need to be empowering to your point (organizations, marketers, decision makers within that).  We’ll become the hero in this story, right?




And I think the other big thing is, and I don’t know if you’ve seen this as well, but the blurring of these roles…  We’re talking about everybody is an insights professional. But the blurring… If you get a great marketer and a great researcher in the room together that have the same mindset and understand their role and own that role, man, magic can happen.    




That’s incredible, right?  And you see it in some organizations.  Again, that’s why I don’t want to paint everyone with the same brush.  I think there’s a lot of fabulous organizations doing amazing things. Like some of the banking clients that we work with, it’s surprising how forward-thinking they are.  You’d think they would be like the last ones to gate. They’re actually really forward-thinking in what they’re doing around research now.


So, my guest today has been Steve Mast.  Tell me, how do people get in contact with you guys?


If you go to Methodify.it, you can check us out there.  Or feel free to email me directly at SMast@Methodify.it.  


So, it would be wrong if I don’t ask you a few questions about the show so far.  What do you think about the new layout and venue?


Ah, I love Austin; I absolutely love Austin.  I’m not sure if I love this location. Feels kind of, everything’s sort of separated in different places.  I don’t know if I can say if we were at Quirk’s recently. I know it’s a competitor.


Yeah, yeah, of course.  


But it was all in one building, right?  I mean I didn’t love the location in Chicago where it was way down on the pier, but you’re in one building, one location; so, it was kind of easy to get to everything.  Now, for us, personally, it’s hard to miss us, right, like we got the big orange display down there.


Yeah, you guys went all in on the location.  And you’ve got the live video, interviews. And he does (I forgot his name.)




Saul does a great job on the post-production.  I don’t know if he does the production.


Yep, he does.


I mean I’ve been looking forward to the highlight reel that he puts together.


Last year, we didn’t have any activation, but Saul was walking around and just interviewing people, right?  And what was amazing with that: we had clients – Coke was one of them – contact us because they loved the video so much that they wanted to use it for their own purposes internally, right?  We’re like absolutely…


NO! [laughter]  


Take that Methodify off the logo.


Steve Mast, Methodify.  Look him up. Information is in the show notes.  Thanks for joining me, sir.


Great, thank you.

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Sheila Akinnusi – Nedbank

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Sheila Akinnusi, Senior Manager of Consumer Marketing and Insights at Nedbank.

Contact Sheila Online:




Sheila Akinnusi with Nedbank.  They are a monstrously massive, large bank out of Africa.  She attended IIeX this year with the intent of finding out what the rest of the world was doing as well as bringing home some best practices.  Again, I just want to underscore how good this event is for connecting your brand with, specifically technology, with perspective buyers. One of the things I really struggle with, as an exhibitor of events for a few decades, is nobody is usually there with a fire to purchase right away.  Instead, it feels a lot more like the long tail but, having said that, it is really a good way to put a face to a name, especially if you’ve been interacting on social with attendees. Anyway, I wanted to offer that piece of advice. If I was going to be exhibiting, I would be looking at the companies that are going to be attending and that is a published list.  And then I would be reaching out to them on social, creating some level of connection – not in the way of like asking but in the way of properly interacting. Like see the things they’re posting about; find out what’s interesting to them. And then, you actually have some context for your conversations. Hope you enjoy the episode. I certainly did. Sheila, thank you so much for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast.       


Sheila with Nedbank, South Africa.  You live in Johannesburg. So, this is your first event at IIeX.  Is that correct?


It is, it is.


Tell me a little bit about what you do there.


So, I’m a Senior Market Research Manager in a large, I suppose, corporate bank.  I do everything from strategic insighting, research projects, consulting internally, managing vendors, governance.  Being a bank, obviously, there’s a lot of that; there’s a whole lot, whole lot. Jack-of-all-trades as researchers are known for.  And, yeah, I get sent to places like this to find out what the rest of the world is doing and bring home some best practice and bold leadership to instrument.


So, today is Day 2.  Do you have any big takeaways from the first day?


I did actually.  I think what was most encouraging is that we’re challenged by the same things even way across the ocean, which is quite encouraging for me.  I did feel like I was going to be bit overwhelmed. but I’m actually feeling quite comfortable in a crowd, which is really, really nice. The sessions that I attended were really quite interesting was the online influence one, how to leverage social media influences for your brand.  That was pretty cool. Yeah, the Women in Research event was really nice. Met lots of great people. I think everyone in the States is quite open. You guys are go-getters and just getting stuff done. It’s really nice to see.


Have you been to any other market research conferences?


I have, not here.  I’ve been to ESOMAR so a few years back, I went to Nice, France.       


In general, ESOMAR, the Insights Association, of course, what we’re doing here, IIeX, the GreenBook – all of them, I think, market research, in general, is a very open community.  And it was good; we met at the WIRe, as you said, last night. One thing that I’ve seen as a trend, obviously, we’re seeing this globally, but it’s been really pushed hard over the last ten years in the WIRe organization is an atmosphere of inclusion because it creates a better picture of what the world really is and helps us identify truth and, honestly, it’s just more human.  It’s interesting, like for me, having these experiences where I’ll be (This sounds a little bit odd, especially in context of our Game of Thrones conversation,) but I’ll be like at a WIRe event, and I’ll be the only guy talking to three women at the same time.  I’m like, “Gosh, I feel really uncomfortable right now.” It’s just a funny…


Right, right.  It’s a bit strange.


It’s a really strange context as a white male where normally I’m the most represented people group in the [laughs]


I hear you, but we were actually having a chat with another lady from Toyota.  And we were actually saying we’re quite encouraged to see a lot of guys there yesterday.  To be honest, I didn’t expect to see many. I thought, “Well, you know, it’s going to be all…”


That was the largest group of guys I’ve ever seen at a WIRe event.


It was really, really nice.  It’s great because I mean back home it’s mostly a female-dominated industry.  I think we were talking about it in terms of the skills that are applied. Most guys just, it’s not their thing.  But to come and see a lot of male representation is awesome; it’s awesome. So…


That’s an interesting point you’re making because I think if you look at market research from an industry perspective like sort of at the operational level, it’s female-dominant.  Now, I haven’t seen that in a survey, just anecdotally in the companies that I’ve worked for and interacted with. But as soon as you sort of move into the executive level, it seems like it’s a lot more male-dominant.  That’s right, yeah, for sure.


And I think it applies, I suppose in any industry actually.  You do find that. I would say definitely the glass ceiling is quite evident in our space and also because people stay for a while.  So to move up the ranks and requirements, family, managing life – all of those things come into play like in any other industry. But what I would say, at least in our space, executive roles in research back home you would find a lot more females than you would in other spaces. HR, general marketing, it is more the more female tendency, kind of roles, which is nice.  So, I’m happy; it’s a great field to be in. And we get to pick people’s minds all the time. I mean what’s better than doing that. So…   


At Nedbank, do you use partners, vendor partners a lot?   


Yes, yes.


And then, my other part of the question is:  Do you also do a lot of the work in-house? Programming, surveys, and that sort of thing.


Ah, well, I suppose I’ll start with our team ‘cause we’re so small.  So, we are only a team of about six or seven people at…


Believe it or not, it’s not a small team.


Really, really.  OK, we feel we’re extremely tiny for the needs that we have to service.  I mean we are a bank of 30,000 staff.


Oh, that’s huge.  OK, so, maybe I’ll take that back.


So, it’s a small team for a lot of work.  So we do have an extension of our team as our partners.  We actually worked with one of the ex-IIeX winners, a South African company called Dove.  They won a couple of years back. So, we try and look for the latest and greatest. We’ve worked with a lot of people from the States here, from London mainly, a lot of local vendors as well.  The technology space is getting a lot more exciting for us and the alteration space is getting exciting; so, we want to try some new things there. And I think that’s why I’m here as well: to look for people who we can work with.  


How exciting.  What do you see as one of the biggest challenges that you guys are facing as researchers?  


Sure, to be honest, it’s re-identifying ourselves in the industry, and literally trying to figure…  “Agile” is big in our environment and all of those changes that come with it. You know, design research.  How do these worlds coexist? So, that’s interesting. So, it’s re-defining ourselves and then the pace, at the rate at which things are changing.  And how to leverage the technology ‘cause, obviously, our skill sets are quite specific. So, how do we work with those who come from outside our industry and leverage what we both have?  Those are the things that keep us up at night most of the time.


The U.S. has a certain like view of ways of accessing consumer insights, usually through smartphones or web.  In Africa, is it a different…? Is SMS more popular? Or are there other challenges that you’re thinking about that North America and Europe may not be thinking about?


Yeah, I think that the biggest challenge we have is we are a melting pot of everything.  So at one extreme, we are in the online community space, using smartphones and all of that.  But then the largest sect of our population really doesn’t have the means, and data is still quite expensive in our country.  So leveraging some of the technologies is a bit challenging, but I mean there’s ways around that. So we incentivize in different ways.  Most people are still more comfortable if they had to do an online survey, I suppose, web- or desktop-based because our questions are still quite lengthy.  To get corporate to change and have the micro-surveys and just let’s get focused about what we’re trying to understand is bit tricky with some executives, especially accountants and banking.  

So our trackers are still really, really long and all of that.  But, yeah, we’re trying as much as we can, and I think in a few years, it will change if the policies change around communication and access to Wi-Fi and all those kinds of things, things are likely to move.  But I think it also depends on the respondent group because language can be a barrier: we have 11 languages in my country. So trying to convey a survey, people get suspicious; there’s trust issues. Sometimes, it is better face-to-face, depending on the market you’re dealing with, especially like mass market.  So, yeah, we do everything, a little bit of everything.


Now I understand a little bit more as to the challenge with a five-person team.  That’s a lot.


Yeah, yeah, absolutely.  A lot of people.


Well, I think they rang the bell, which means that the speakers are…  Yep, they’re starting in. I’m not sure but I think I’m chairing a…


Oh, goodness, so we should go.


My guest today has been Sheila.  Thanks so much for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast today.   


Thank you so much.  It was awesome.


Absolute pleasure.


I look forward to hearing it.


Oh, me too.


Awesome.  Thanks.

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Rob Benson – Dwindle

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Rob Benson, co-founder of dwindle.

Contact Rob Online:




Rob Benson with Dwindle, dwindling it down as it were.  They are a new entrant into the market research space. Really cool in real time AV testing that is designed to work alongside designers.  Enjoy the episode.


We are live today at IIeX, the Innovation Show for market research in the U.S.  I’ve got Rob with Dwindle. You have a co-founder. Is that correct?


That’s right.  That’s Joe.


Joe’s standing over there, but because we only have two mikes, you’re going to go ahead and represent and represent well, I’m sure.




OK, good.  Tell me a little bit about Dwindle.  What do you guys do?


So, a little bit of background maybe:  We come from an internet marketing background, and it’s our first conference here, our first kind of dive into market research.  We’re still trying to learn the lingo and the vernacular, which is strange. But we’re getting there. So, we started… we’ve been doing internet marketing for 15 years or so, and we have plenty branding and logo projects, right?  We kind of developed this tool out of necessity because at one point presented, I remember we presented a really big, big branding project. It was a big deal. It didn’t go so well. And we learned things during the presentation that would have been great to know beforehand, right?  So we developed this quick-choice model, where we present two images to a person on an app on their smartphone. They start tapping, and each of those taps tells us something about their preferences: whether they like literal logos versus abstract, Sara versus Sans Sara font. So, going into a branding project, our design team now is armed with this information.  So, we’ve been using it internally with great success. (probably 40 or so projects to date) and kind of sampling it out to some other agencies. It’s going well. So we wanted to come here to try to learn where we might be able to fit a product like that.


Got it.  Now, you’re connected with Patrick Comer, who we all know as the founder and CEO of Fulcrum, now rebranded Lucid.  How do you guys know each other?


So, Patrick married my aunt, who is a…       


That really is a family connection.          


Yeah, afraid so.  I’m understanding what a tight-knit family this whole industry is, right?  So just knowing one person in that industry has put us in touch with people like you, who are heavy hitters in this place, and it’s a…  


It makes me feel old that Patrick married your aunt.  


Well, now, she’s only four years my senior.  She’s more like a big sister. Yeah, sorry.


Patrick and I are around the same age, so.


Right.  So, his wife, my aunt, and my mom are 15 years apart.


Got it.  Totally got it.  Perfect. Thanks for the clarity.  I feel a little bit better now. Patrick, I still think I’m older than you.  Ahh, you guys have been to the show. Just today’s your first day, right?


Well, yesterday we came.  This is our first show; so, we’re still learning.  


What do you think about the show so far?


Oh, man, it’s phenomenal:  the resources and this tight-knit community.  Everybody is so willing to help and really mentor us as newbies.  We kind of weren’t sure where we might get the answers to the questions we’re having, but everybody that we’ve talked to just, whether it’s at lunch or in these break-out sessions, have been so helpful.    


That’s awesome.  Are you… So, going back to Dwindle.  I want to hear about the name. Why Dwindle?  ‘Cause it feels negative to me. I’m not going to lie.


Interesting, right?  That’s an interesting perspective.  So, because we’re essentially trying to dwindle down these myriad of options or inclinations that somebody might have into a funnel.


Got it.  So you’re whittling down.  They wind up with the choice answers.  Did you identify the chaff from the bad choices along the way?  


You got it.  


OK, got it.  That helps me a little bit.  So, we’re going to push on the name later


Fair, that’s fair.  


Buy you some beer and we’ll talk about that.


I’m in.




That sounds great.  This evening… We learned of this ping pong bar.  Have you heard of this thing?


No, I haven’t.


It’s called Spin.  Man, we’re excited about this.  So, the biggest table in our office is a ping pong table.


OK, that’s the best boardroom ever.  


Right.  So, apparently, it is a bar made out of ping pong tables, which we can’t wait to see for the first time.  


Dominate.  Are you guys like sharks?


No, no, not at all, no.  


Are you going to come in and be like, “I’ve never played before?  $200? Yes.”


Well, we’ll get a lay of the room first.  Just kind of feel for the room. Lay of the land, right?  And just see…


Yeah, yeah, yeah.  Feel it out.


We’ll see.


Oh, my gosh, that’s awesome.  If someone wants to get in contact with you, how would they do that?


Email rob@dwindle.app is the best way, yeah.


Perfect.  Rob, thanks for being on the Happy Market Research Podcast.


Thanks so much.  Appreciate it.



IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Rick Kelly – Fuel Cycle

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Rick Kelly, Senior Vice President of Product & Research at Fuel Cycle.

Contact Rick Online:


Fuel Cycle


Rick Kelly, Fuel Cycle, Senior Leader at that company.  This is the second interview we did with Fuel Cycle. As I already mentioned, Fuel Cycle is a research, cloud-based platform that has their own set of qualitative and quantitative solutions integrated directly into it as well as they’ve plugged in some other tools.  Interesting fact: Rick Kelly and I have picked grapes in the same fields; I think there might have been a decade in between. But it was really funny talking with somebody with a very similar cultural point of view, having a very similar upbringing. Hope you enjoy this episode.  It was a lot of fun for me.


Hey, everybody.  I am here with Rick Kelly, Fuel Cycle.  Rick, thanks for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast today.  


I am thrilled to be here.


I promise you you’re not more excited than I am.  


OK, that’s going to be a tough competition, but I’ll let you have it for now.  Let’s see how this goes.


So, Day 1, you’re my very first interview.  So I’m going to do some special promotion around this particular episode.  Fuel Cycle, tell me what is going on there.


I mean there’s a lot of things going on.  So, obviously, we have a big background in research communities.


So, actually, let’s back up.  When did you guys start?


So, Fuel Cycle’s been around for 12 years now.  We were formerly known as

Passenger, and we branded it about three years ago to Fuel Cycle.  So, we’ve been around, known for our research communities. And then, over the past little while, we’ve launched like a product exchange where we integrate with a bunch of different partners and everything as well and really been repositioning ourselves as a market research cloud, centered around our research communities, with the idea being that we can integrate with just about any other technology provider in the research space and link that to the research communities and run just about any type of project you’d like.  


Got it, cool.  Give me an example of your favorite project you guys have worked on.


You know what?  There’s lots of really cool ones, but here’s a great example.  We just launched a feature called FC Live. And what we can do is we can do UX-testing on mobile devices.  So a research respondent can take a prototype that’s sent to him by a researcher, share that screen on the phone, capture the entire screen and walk-through experience whether it’s a online shopping experience or a new app or something like that.  All that video is captured and then it’s transcribed by Voxpopme and available for analysis in a few hours. So it’s really taken the idea of remote usability, testing and putting it on steroids.


That’s really cool.  So, how many companies are you guys connected to?          


So, right now we have about 100 clients, just got to a 100.  When I started five years ago, there were about 13.


Yeah, ‘cause I remember you guys way back when.  And then the rebrand, of course, I think, was absolutely brilliant.  Was the rationale like it was just an aged brand or did you feel like it was a strategic pivot?  And, if so, from what to what?


Yeah, so I think there was a new team there.  There were no more founders left in the organization.  And we kind of wanted to re-establish what it meant to be us in the marketplace.  And also, Passenger felt like a very passive brand, and none of us are passive people.  And so, Fuel Cycle just kind of denoted energy and kind of enthusiasm for what we were doing in general.


Now, I am from Fresno, California, and you are from, as it turns out, which is hilarious, Visalia, California, which is our neighbor.   


Yeah, about 40 minutes down the road.  


Yeah, that’s right.  I will say that Visalia has the coolest downtown of any Central Valley.


That’s true.  It’s very, very cool.  


Totally, totally.  So, tell me a little bit about your journey.  How in the world did you wind up in market research?


No idea, really.  I think that’s the same as everyone.  But I grew up on a farm in central California.  I left and didn’t go back for 15 years. So, when I graduated high school, I went to college in Idaho; I lived in Ireland for a couple years; I lived in Utah.  And after I finished grad school at Utah State, I ended up working in market research. And it’s really due to the recession. I had a job to go overseas and teach English.  And a few weeks before I was due to graduate, the company I was going to work for went under. And somebody introduced me to Bob Faison, who’s now at Dynata. I got hired pretty quickly.  


That’s awesome.  


So, that’s how I got into market research.


That’s so funny.  These two country bumpkins that wind up in technology, market research.


Yeah, exactly.


That is so funny, how the world works.  Yeah, totally. Yeah, I grew up picking grapes and the whole… turning trays and pruning.    


I’m sure we worked on some of the same vineyards.


It’s so funny.  So, what’s next for you guys?  You pivoted away from a passive brand, really community-oriented, or panel community, that’s what I meant by that.  Do you guys have your own panel assets?


We don’t.  Nothing proprietary today.  So nothing to announce there, but we continue to focus really on the unique value the community provides.  So, something like some really in-depth qualitative research things that we can do because we have private communities that you just can’t do with a general access panel.  So, while we do a lot of quantitative work – in fact, about 60% of the work done on our platform today is quantitative – we continue to emphasize some of the qualitative things like they mentioned:  the UX-testing, video, photos, things that are really, really different than just standard discussion boards and surveys.


Who’s your ideal customer?  Do they sit inside of a brand?  An agency?


So, there’s two types.  Really, at the end of the day, end-customers, large enterprises are really our sweet spot, probably your Fortune 1000, something along those lines.  We do work with a lot of resellers who resell our platform and provide services along side it too.


What kind of terms of trade?  What does that look like with you guys?  How do you monetize the relationship? I don’t mean that like gouge them.  How do you people engage…


What’s our business model?


Yeah, thank you.


So, we’re software as a service.  So, it’s SaaS. So, we do business in annual license plus.  So, minimum 12-month contracts, and many of them are multi-year.  And that’s kind of the primary business model overall.   


Got it.  So, market research has gone through a lot of transition in the last five years.  A lot.




The introduction of block chain and crypto-currency has entered into the space.  AI, of course, research automation, probably the number 1 buzz word I’ve heard as of late, even though it’s been around for a while.  In fact, I would argue that Decipher, the company I started, was actually just a research automation play as opposed to an online survey play, right?     


Yeah, in retrospect, it’s all automation.  


Right, totally, right.  It’s just by getting to the data, the insights faster.  So, what do you see, looking forward to the next five years, where’s your bets?  What are you seeing as going to be trending?


I think where we’re going to continue to place a lot of bets is really around analyzing a lot of unstructured data at scale. So, collecting unstructured insights, being able to process and give those things meaning will continue to be important.  So that really is an automation and an AI play because those are things you can do at scale with artificial intelligence. And also I think we’re going to see like a resurgence in the importance of user experience to research respondents. I think having easy-to-use tools and easy-to-use survey of platforms to participate in ends up being very, very important in the long run too and really affects data quality.       


That’s awesome.  You guys think you’re going to continue to play exclusively in the tool space or do you think you’re going to branch out and actually create your own panel?  The reason I bring it up is because there’s been a… I mean our entire careers you’ve heard about data quality, but it does seem like there’s been a big change.  TMR, the group scientists at Proctor & Gamble, MRMW two weeks ago she gave a presentation, claiming that a significant proportion – I might be misquoting it but I believe it was around 30% – of completes on some studies that they analyzed were determined as fraud.  Are you seeing that as problem that you might be able to solve in the context of where you’re sitting in the data ecosystem?


Yeah, that’s an interesting question.  Like I said, we have nothing to announce today, but ultimately like our value to our clients is dependent on the fidelity of data that we’re providing to them.  And so, where we feel like we can have an impact, if we can impact the quality and fidelity, then that’s something that we’re going to invest time and effort into.     


Understood.  Great, fantastic.  Rick with Fuel Cycle has been my guest on Happy Market Research Podcast.


Very happy to be here.  


Thanks so much.  Hey, listen, before I let you go, what do you think about the show? I know we’re just getting started.    


Well, I think it’s fantastic.  I love being in Austin. Over in Atlanta, I’m really glad they moved it here.  It’s a great city: lots of good energy and everything too. And it’s great to see all these tech companies out here – just explosion in this space.


Just over 1,200 this year, which, I think, almost a couple hundred more than last year in attendees, which is fantastic.  The exhibitor hall is completely packed to the gills even into the overflow areas. To your point, there’s a lot of good energy here.


When Qualtrics gets acquired for 8 billion dollars, I think that makes a lot of entrepreneurs think, “Hey, there’s something in this kind of customer data space.”  And I think we’ll see a lot more in the future.


They are the tail that is wagging the dog of market research right now.




Yeah, absolutely.  Alright, thanks for joining me.  


Thanks a lot, Jamin.

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Ray Fischer – Aha! Online Research

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Ray Fischer, CEO and Founding Partner of Aha! Online Research.

Contact Ray Online:


Aha! Online Research


Ray Fischer, Aha! Online Research.  First off, he is the best voice in market research.  I wish it was me, but it’s not. For those that don’t know, Aha! Online is a qualitative platform that’s used by many large brands.  They support an asynchronous data collection approach for digital ethnography. Enjoy the episode. You can find his contact information in the show notes.


Ray Fischer, the CEO and founding partner of Aha!, also has been on the show, one of my favorite podcasts.  The best voice in market research. Seriously, 100%, it’s absolutely true. We’re live at IIeX here in Austin.  What do you think about the show so far?


Oh, it’s been great, great.  Great energy, new venue, which is super cool.  I think this is my fifth or sixth one. I’m not sure how many they’ve had, but I’ve been to all of them.  This one is really neat. Love Austin, different energy. Atlanta was great, but this is super, super cool.  


Yeah, it really is.  I agree about the energy point.  I call it the Coke versus Pepsi effect:  some of the executives or people on the floor have been a little bit apprehensive about the structure of it early in Day 1 ‘cause it felt a little bit separated.  But everybody in Day 2 has been excited about the show floor and the interactions that they’re getting and value, value, value.


Some people aren’t open to change.  You know how that goes.


Are we in market research still?


You’ll always find a complainer, but “no,” it’s awesome. You got to make it what it is, but it is an amazing venue.    




Look at the walls behind you.  And it’s just the color popping out.  I mean that’s emblematic of the energy in this place.         


I got in big trouble actually because I had placed my…  I have a large case for the equipment, and so I had placed the Penquin case by the…  Anyway, I got in big trouble for it. “Oh, my gosh, I didn’t realize it was actually art.”  It’s legit art.


It’s definitely.  Don’t scrape yourself on it either; it’s 3D.


So, Aha!, what’s going on, man?


I’ve been busy as heck.  It’s really… Last year I think we talked, somewhere near the end of last year.  We had a great year last year. This year we’re off to a rip-roaring start. We’re thrilled.  We’re launching new activities, new things, kind of spreading the word on online qual. Remarkedly, everyone has not yet tried online qual.  So there’s still a lot of untapped territory out there. We’re working to spread the good word and, obviously, spread our own product word. But a lot of big stuff happening in the whole customer experience world.  The video world has changed quite a bit; I think we might have touched on that before, but. All the connectivity: I’m excited about 4G going to 5G on the mobile scene because this is going to increase uploads speeds from respondents with video and pictures, which are so important to the whole online experience and the online mobile experience.    


There’s a lot you just said.  And I just want to take a step back because probably some of our audience isn’t familiar with exactly what it is that Aha! does.  So, if you could just give me like the high-level overview, not too in the weeds, so that everybody can like level set with where you guys fit in the market research ecosystem.   


We’re an online qualitative platform.  We do what we call asynchronous approach, which means people come in usually on a multi-day to, let’s say, up to a year-long study, where they come in at their convenience on a set schedule.  Most studies usually run four or five days in length. People come in for 30 to 45 minutes and do a set series of activities; some of those are on their computer; some of those can be done on a laptop, tablet, whatever.  And some of that is mobile; so, there may be store missions involved or maybe diary entries where you take it moment in time where, let’s say, if you’re doing a snacking study, every time you have a snack, you might do a little video recording, maybe answer a couple of open-ends, maybe a closed-end about how satisfying that particular event was and make those diary entries.  So it’s a real connected, emotional, and projective-type approach to getting close to how consumers think, act, and feel.


Got it.  So, this is part of my ongoing thesis in market research as I’m 48 years old now, which is not like the pinnacle of knowledge, but I’m smarter than I was when I was 28.


Yes, agreed.  We all get there.    


Thankfully in some ways.  Really what market research is is a conversation at scale.  You know small companies like Mom and Pop retail, you probably don’t need to do market research ‘cause you know the 100 people that are frequenting your establishment in a day, right?  You develop that rapport. But, once you get into two stores and thousands of customers, it’s impossible to actually keep your finger on the pulse of the customer. And now, all of a sudden, in order to facilitate that conversation, market research is employed, which is largely a logistical exercise of facilitating a conversation at scale.  Now, this is what’s really interesting for me is in the 50s when research really started with political polling specifically, surveys became the dominant form for understanding consumer sentiment and then qualitative, of course, had a meaningful role in informing the quant. Now what’s happening is the tools are so sophisticated (AI, machine learning, just getting better at figuring out technology) you can actually conduct qualitative research at scale, like you said, asynchronously and get, not just the A, B test of “This is greater than that,” which comes out of a survey, but you can start digesting that information understand the true “why” and the drivers of the consumer.  So, to that end, are you seeing a lift in qual as just a broader application, not a trump on quant (I’m not trying to say that necessarily) but are you seeing it just kind of gaining overall share in the market research…?


Yeah, that’s a great question.  I think what I’m seeing, Jamin, is you’ve got people out there…  Obviously, quant is always going to be there, but what’s happened with qual that’s giving it gains is you’ve got…  Remember focus groups, of course. We’ve all been in them, done them, watched them, etc. Now, you’ve got the ability to be with everybody out in their real lives through technologies.  You’ve got video and picture capability. Everyone has a smart phone around the world. So we’ve gone from what you might gain in a 90-minute focus group; we’re now able to spend a couple hours with people over, let’s say, four days.  So, let’s say, one moderator can communicate, as you said, at scale and talk to 50 people for 30 to 45 minutes a day, not necessarily talking to them directly but through great lines of questioning, great projective activities, video exercises, store tours, etc.  I think what’s happened is we’ve gone from this eight people in a focus-group room and everybody has to travel to Atlanta to go watch it from behind a mirror. And it’s kind of a stilted environment: people at little bit, you know, they’re on stage. Now, they’re able to do this stuff in the comfort of their own homes, walking through the store by themselves; plus, people have gotten in this era of social media and camera usage; people are real comfortable in front of cameras, taking pictures of themselves.  We’re all kind of trained actors in a way but, obviously, we don’t want anyone acting when they share information with us, but they’re so much more comfortable and natural in these environments to be able to do things like share what kind of underwear they wear and why they buy it or what kind of personal care products they use, what kind of groceries they buy. So it’s just changed the game completely. So it’s a technology-driven evolution.


Exactly.  With respect to your customers, are you guys…  Obviously, a technology platform, are you also adding in the analytics and engagement with the customer post or is it…?    


Yeah, there’s definitely probing that goes on throughout a study.  So that’s usually human-driven although we’re touching into the AI zone of that and I know other competitors are doing the same.  One thing that I don’t want to do at this point in time is that qual is so human that the minute we put a chatbot into a study and they ask a question that isn’t really completely perfect and doesn’t feel like a human, they’ll know it’s a chatbot, and the relationship is over ‘cause it’s really about the human touch.  

Now, we truly try to make moderators connect with respondents, do a video before they launch a study so that when people come in, they actually know who the moderator is.  They watch a little one- or two-minute video about who they are, what their job is and what the respondent’s job is going to be. And I even have moderators who do that every day.  They do a quick one-minute video, saying who they are, here’s what we’re doing today, here’s what I need you to do, and have a great day. So the minute a bot comes in and doesn’t fire an appropriately triggered question, somebody’s going to know it’s a machine and not a person.  So, it will get to the point where I think you almost can’t tell the difference; it’ll probably get there pretty quickly. Right now, we’re treading lightly in that area and doing some basic AI-driven questions.


Better to be over-sensitive to that because to your point, market research is in a lot of ways because it’s being done so much now, it’s an extension of a brand.  And so, if a person has a bad experience in a market research study, that actually reflects negatively on the overall brand that is commissioning that project. So you really got to be cognizant of that and error on the side of creating a great customer experience even in context of research as opposed to it being the other direction it used to be, which was “Screw you.  You’re going to take my 30-minute survey, non-mobile friendly, 1,000 variable, 10-point rating scale…” You really got to start thinking about that as a researcher.


Oh, absolutely.  In “Bet Your AI,” I question about…  Like there are chatbots that are doing some automated probing and things like that.  But the other thing is on the back-end, that’s where the opportunity is with the text analytics stuff.  There’s several players here; some of them I’ve know like OdinAnswers; I’ve known Tom for seven or eight years, I think.  And he’s been doing this stuff in the embryonic days of it.




And now it’s coming into its own at this point in time. And there’s other competitors like to him like, I think it’s Rob Key with Converseon.  Really cool tools he’s got there too. So, there’s players out there that are trying to get to the point where we can break this data down quickly.  That’s always been the toughest part of being a qualitative market researcher. If you do, let’s say a five-day study or a year-long study and you have 100 people or 50 people or whatever it might be  


…analytic scale for qual’s hard.


You got…  You have to break all that data down yourself.  And, Jamin, you come from this space too and you probably had to write reports that were painful to do.  You know I was talking to Jim Bryson today, which was really funny. He said somebody begged him to moderate some focus groups, which he’d done for 25 years.  He did them a couple of weeks ago, and he said the most brutal part of it is writing the report, which I agree with 100%. I haven’t done one in seven years, and I don’t think I can write a report.  It would be so painful.


You have to write that report on the plane flight after every…  You know what I’m saying. Every minute you’re away from the data, the less visceral the connection is to the outcome and you really start losing the power


That is kind of the beauty of the online stuff is it’s always there for you to analyze, but again, if you can break that data down quicker.  One of my partners, Jim White, we always talk about “data wrangling,” and what are the best ways to help manage the data on the qual side. And a lot of times what he uses and he preaches this is to use a trigger quant question that helps him at least sort the data.  “Tell me what would you rate this idea,” or “How did you feel about that experience? 1 to 5 or 1 to 10?” So, he can separate the 1s from the 10s and the 1s from the 5s and really look at the polar opposites.


Totally.  Find some context for the answers.


Exactly, and they get context.  


Ray, if somebody wants to get in contact with you, how would they do that?    


They could get me on email:  RayF@Ahaonlineresearch.com.  That’s a mouthful, but apparently my marketing guy convinced me that was great SCO.  So…


It is pretty good SCO.


So, here we go.  And my phone number is 810-599-9440, website – Ahaonlineresearch.com.


And we’ll include all that information in the show notes.  As always, I’d greatly appreciate it if you’d take the time to screenshot this episode, share it on your social media, and whatever platform you’re listening and consuming this content in, please take the time (one minute it will take you) to provide us a rating.  It makes ALL the difference in the world and is really a way for us to help validate content like this and get it into more insights professionals’ hands.

Ray, thanks for being on the Happy Market Research Podcast.


Jamin, thanks so much.

IIeX NA 2019 Conference Series – Marc Macellaio – Fuel Cycle

Welcome to the 2019 IIEX North America Conference Series. Recorded live in Austin, this series is bringing interviews straight to you from exhibitors and speakers at this year’s event. In this interview, host Jamin Brazil interviews Marc Macellaio, Vice President of Sales at Fuel Cycle.

Contact Marc Online:


Fuel Cycle


Marc Macellaio, Fuel Cycle.  This is the second interview I did on site at IIeX with Fuel Cycle.  Fuel Cycle is a marketing research cloud platform that allows you… They have their own set of solutions and also you can plug in some external tools that you might have as well in your research portfolio.  You know for me, this is probably one of the more interesting businesses. When I think about my next thing, I definitely feel like there’s an element of their API-driven marketplace yadi-yadi-yada that is real interesting.  But I’d encourage you to think about the last 12 years that they’ve been in business: how they have evolved and stayed, not just relevant, but actually move more, more towards the cutting edge of technology and adding value to our ecosystem.  Enjoy.


I am sitting here with the head of sales, Marc, at Fuel Cycle.  Marc, thanks for joining me on the Happy Market Research Podcast.   


Thanks for having me.  Really appreciate it.


Alright, cool, man.  What do you think about the show?  IIeX, this is Day 3. I’m a little tired


I’m a little tired, but we’re having a blast.  A lot of energy and really innovative tools out there.


You guys have a nice presence in the North Hall, I think, or South Hall.


Yeah, one of the two.  The one with the big, orange pillows in the couches, everything, yeah.  Can’t miss us.


Right, totally.  So, were you at last year’s IIex?  


I was.       


What do you think about the difference in venues?          


I love this venue.  Obviously, it’s larger, more space.  I think more energy. I mean it’s easier to get around and a…  The last year just getting too large, I guess, people kind of getting shoved out.  So this has been great.


Have you been able to attend any sessions?


A handful of sessions, yeah.  Mainly, I’m kind of working the room, working the booth, that kind of thing.  But, yeah, a lot of really good information around and talks around AI and sort of what’s next around market research.  So really cool.


So, let’s talk about Fuel Cycle.  You guys are a, from my understanding, a comprehensive, end-to-end research technology platform that allows community management and then you also have your own tools for conducting qualitative research.  Is that right?


That’s correct, yep.


And then, in addition to that, you have the capacity through your API’s to interact with other third-party tools like Voxpopme or SurveyGizmo or whatever.


Typically, when people work with us, they’ll say, “Hey, we want to build a community.”  And so, we’ll put together a community that allows them to do both the qualitative – discussion boards, diary studies, live chats, video IDI’s, video focus groups (mobile, by the way).  But also, it comes with our SurveyGizmo partner Quant Solutions. So, it allows them to do again the quant and the qual and connect all the data in one community environment, right?


Got it.  It makes a lot of sense to me.  So, how long have you guys been working with SurveyGizmo?


Last probably three to four years now.  


OK, good.  And how long have you been around?  ‘Cause you’ve really been popping for the last two years.  I didn’t hear a lot about you before.


You know about four or five years ago, we revamped our whole platform, calling it really Fuel Cycle, and it’s really changed the game.  It’s no longer a community; we’ve moved in to the research cloud. So, as you said before, we have this community environment where they can do the quant and the qual.  We also plug into Qualtrics and other leading survey tools as well, but it also then takes us to the level where we can plug in these other great innovative tools like a Voxpopme and like a Consensus Point, like a Protobrand, System 1 Research, right. Any of these innovative tools, or anytime the client wants to pull these in, they can.  And all the data is all housed in the same environment.


Ah, that’s beautiful.  Super simple.


Super simple, super easy, all connected, giving people the ability to quick, iterative research but also allowing them to do that longitudinal research that they love as well too.  And not only talking to 300 people, we can talk to 50,000 people in one community, segmented and based on who the client wants to talk to.


Do you do the recruiting for those panels or do you use third-party providers like a Dynata or what have you?


We do.  We actually do both.  So, some of our clients want to talk to their own customers; we’ll use customer lists.  So we can actually connect to their customer lists as well through API. And then also, a lot of clients want to talk to sort of their non-customers, right?  “How can I be targeting? How do I target this new audience like a Millennial, like a GenZ”? And we can go to third-party panel providers to recruit them.  


Awesome.  That’s really cool.  So, I’m chairing a track, unfortunately.  So I’m going to have to jump in just a second.  But, if somebody wants to get in contact with you, how would they do that?


Yeah, just reach out to www.fuelcycle.com.  F U E L C Y C L E. com.  Yeah, and request a demo, or give us a call.


Awesome, man.  Well, thanks so much for being on the Happy Market Research Podcast.


I appreciate it.  This has been great.


Hey, listen, if you guys are tuning in, please take the time, screenshot this episode, share it with your friends and family.  As always, if you can provide a rating on the platform of your choice, it goes a l-o-n-g ways in helping other people like you find this valuable content.  Have a wonderful rest of your day.