Ep. 406 – Nadia Masri, founder of Perksy, on how to Navigate a Successful Career in Market Research

My guest today is Nadia Masri, Founder & CEO at Perksy and Forbes 30 Under 30 in the 2019 Marketing & Advertising division.  

Founded in 2015, Perksy is a market intelligence platform that leverages mobile to drive real-time insights from hyper-targeted, hyperlocal audiences of Millennials & Gen-Z.

Prior to founding Perksy, Nadia founded and operated several companies including Four sixty, a digital marketing platform for e-commerce retailers, and Birdcage Magazine.

Find Nadia Online:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiagenevievemasri 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/nadiagenmasri 

Website: https://www.getperksy.com  

Find Jamin Online:

Email: jamin@happymr.com 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jaminbrazil

Twitter: www.twitter.com/jaminbrazil 

Find Us Online: 

Twitter: www.twitter.com/happymrxp 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/happymarketresearch 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/happymrxp 

Website: www.happymr.com 

Music: 

“Clap Along” by Auditionauti: https://audionautix.com 

Epidemic Sound: https://www.epidemicsound.com/ 

This Episode is Sponsored by:

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[00:00:00]

Jamin: Hi, I’m Jamin. And you’re listening to the Happy Market Research podcast. My guest today is Nadia Masri, founder and CEO of Perksy and Forbes 30 under 30 in the 2019 marketing advertising division. Founded in 2015 Perksy is a market intelligence platform that leverages mobile to drive real-time insights from hyper-targeted, hyperlocal audiences of millennials and gen Z. Prior to founding Perksy, Nadia founded and operated several companies, including Four Sixty a digital marketing platform of e-commerce retailers and Birdcage magazine. Nadia, thanks for being on the Happy Market podcast today.

[00:00:50]

Nadia: Thanks so much for having me. Glad to be here.

[00:00:53]

Jamin: It is an absolute honor. Forbes 30 under 30. That is actually a really big deal. Tell me a little bit about your parents and how they informed what you do today.

[00:01:04]

Nadia: You know I don’t get that question that often, but I feel like my parents greatly influenced what I do today. So my dad is a psychiatrist in Canada and my mom was a teacher. But she later became a coach and has really always been one of those people that loves to research. She’ll research everything. So it’s very much in my family. It’s sort of in our genes to be fact-finding and to try and learn as much as possible. But I think the environment of learning was just something that I was brought up with. And on my dad’s side, I think I share his curiosity about people. So why they do the things they do, what drives their behavior, what makes them tick? I think he helped me at a very early age sort of develop sort of that appetite and on top of that he’s a deeply empathetic person. I think it’s required in the work that he does. And I think that empathy translates really well in wanting to better understand people. And so I think even just their personalities and the values that they hold have helped shaped me today. And from a professional perspective, I think they’ve really encouraged me to sort of find my own path and they’ve always encouraged the entrepreneurship side of things. My dad he’s one of 10 kids, he’s got a couple siblings who are entrepreneurs and one that’s in technology. And so I think they’ve always believed in sort of that pursuit and helped us form that path for me.

[00:03:00]

Jamin: Has your dad always been a psychologist?

[00:03:03]

Nadia: Psychiatrist. Yeah.

[00:03:04]

Jamin: Psychiatrist. Excuse me.

[00:03:05]

Nadia: Yeah. So he he’s always been a doctor. He’s a very specific type of psychiatrist now. He focuses a lot on transcultural psychiatry and I think that has also influenced different things in our platform as well. So he is one of the few psychiatrists in Canada that focuses on helping immigrants to transition into the new culture and help them with that transition. So he’s taught me a lot about cultural diversity and that’s something that we ended up building into our platform and ensuring that we think about different cultures and different ethnicities and how their behavior might be different depending on where they come from and sort of how to interpret that. So that’s actually been a really interesting little nugget there as to how something that he has done has helped inform even the product that I’ve co-created with my team.

[00:04:04]

Jamin: I recently did a podcast series on the importance of diversity at the research analytics phase in order to understand people, groups, and otherwise you wind up with natural biases that you just can’t simply remove when you’re analyzing data based on whomever is doing the analytics. And I was blown away at the level of mistakes that I have personally made in my career, professional career in analyzing data and representing certain people groups without really understanding that people group outside of like a dataset. And how it actually can be a superpower to a brand if they can have the cultural relevancy to then interpret what the application is of that insight.

[00:04:59]

Nadia: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the way that we frame it when we’re talking about diversity in our platform with brands is saying if you’re targeting let’s say they’re trying to reach the Hispanic population. I mean, there’s a difference. There are going to be cultural differences between someone who’s Hispanic from Puerto Rico versus someone who’s Hispanic from Mexico. And I think those are the kinds of things that the brands need to consider. No one wants to be put into these larger buckets. But thinking about the subtle nuances and how they affect research and how they are applied to research is extremely important.

[00:05:43]

Jamin: Yeah. For sure. Especially relevant to things like messaging, etc. You are a serial entrepreneur and it’s pretty obvious to me at a young age, you realized that your heart was set on realizing your vision. Tell me, what was the first business that you created?

[00:06:02]

Nadia: So the first real business that I created was a college pro franchise. So I begged my dad to be the guarantor on a loan because I was 17 at the time and wasn’t old enough to get a loan myself from the bank. And I almost like, “Don’t do it.” But he was like, “No, I’m going to do it”. And thinking as he did, and that was sort of my real foray into entrepreneurship. And so that was just a local franchise for painting houses. So that business was really me recruiting different groups of painters, running different job sites and literally just painting houses in the neighborhood. And that was fairly successful for me. And we produced quite a bit of work. And from that, I remember thinking to myself, I mean, this is fascinating. I think I’ve always enjoyed being a creator. And I think – and I like designing things. I like the concept of design, not just in the way that one might think of it artistically, but really like designing any type of architecture. And I think for me, designing a business is really sort of like designing your own little universe. And to me that’s creating, it’s creating your own little world. When I was younger, I actually wanted to be a director. And I remember talking to my mom, I think it was a year ago or something like that. I was saying, “Mom was always an entrepreneur?” And she says, “I think the dots connect now, but maybe they didn’t at the time.” She was like, “One thing I think you always have been for sure is a creator.” She’s like, “Remember when you wanted to be a director?” I’m like, “Yeah, yeah. I remember that.” I still hope to one-day executive producer or do something along those lines. I was always really, really interested in film. But she was like, “You really just wanted to create and tell your own stories. You wanted to create a product and you wanted to design everything around it.” I think the idea was at that age I thought the director was the person who decides what does a set look like? What do the costumes look like? What’s the best script to put in place? Who are you going to cast? And I love that concept. And I think that’s kind of what you do with a company. You’re casting the folks; you’re finding different people to cover different areas. The set design is like the product design. The script is the content, the messaging and the copy and the communications and there’s an underlying story to all of it. And so I think that that repeated itself as I transitioned from when I was younger and was focused on creative pursuits to being a bit older and starting companies and I thought that was a really interesting insight from her perspective.

[00:08:54]

Jamin: Now when you think about – I actually think about entrepreneurship in the way of fiction, and it’s all about creating that fiction and bringing it into reality because it’s something that quite literally doesn’t exist and nobody else can see that. And so it’s a fantasy novel that you then have to architect and a manufacturer and ultimately that is a living, breathing story.

[00:09:22]

Nadia: That is a great way to think about it. That’s another thing I wanted to do when I was young. That was before I wanted to be a director; I wanted to be a fiction writer. I was like I want to be like JK Rowling. She’s my hero. I want to be like her. I want to write a Harry Potter.

[00:09:37]

Jamin: I do too. I don’t have that skill but-

[00:09:39]

Nadia: I mean, don’t we all? Who doesn’t? I mean we all want to be a creator of the next Harry Potter.

[00:09:47]

Jamin: So we’re having this interview in an interesting time in our lives. I’m 49 years old and I have been through a couple of economic downturns. First the dot com and then later the financial crisis of 2008. And of course, you know, the 9/11 thing. But in all my life, I’ve never seen anything like this in context of like a global framework. And we were actually set to have this conversation before, but I’m really glad that we’re able to have it right now. So as the world is like still spinning and moving along how has this pandemic impacted you?

[00:10:32]

Nadia: I think it’s been really interesting because our business has actually doubled during this timeframe. I mean, we were always on track and we were always setting out to build something around the concept of the Adobe suite of consumer research products. That’s what we wanted to create. But we wanted to solve some really particular pain points. We wanted to design a platform that’s really built for the respondent first. To really focus on the respondent experience, which we didn’t feel any other platforms did. We also wanted to build a platform that wouldn’t just give you speed. So, we get same day results, but we think that speed should be table stakes, right? I think that’s just an in general, you should be able to turn around insights quite quickly. They don’t need to be within an hour. You want to make sure that they’re high quality, but at least within a few days. And so we thought about all these things and we thought about putting them together and really designed a premium enterprise solution. But I think that when it comes to emerging platforms and new technologies, sometimes larger companies can be slower to adopt and for good reason. Sometimes they can be hesitant of new entrants. They want to see them prove themselves. And I think that our value prop has really been amplified during this time, which is just better, faster research that’s more affordable than the incumbents. So we sort of position ourselves as our true competitors are the Ipsos, the Kantars of the world. The research now – or I should say Dyanta of the world. And so we, during this time, we’ve actually seen a lot of success. So we saw our sales double and we’ve continued to be able to build given the fact that we are a technology company. And so most of the tools that we use even internally for communications and collaboration, they’re all tech-based tools. And so it was easy for us to go to go virtual. But we also saw that, I think right now, given that there aren’t as many conferences that you can be at, you can’t really – the best companies right now, aren’t winning on sponsorships. The best companies right now are winning on product and sort of how they’re delivering the messaging around their value, which can be done in sort of digital ways that are relatively inexpensive. And so I think it’s really leveled the playing field for many companies, especially for startups that are looking to challenge incumbents. And so I think that’s been great for us. Of course, there’s a lot of fear and many of our customers are going through a lot, some of them are going through budget freezes and things like that. And we really empathize with that because we’re a small company and we’ve been through phases where we know what it’s like to not be able to spend the dollars that you want to spend. Of course, in this context, it’s much more dramatic. And I think what we’re trying to do is find a way to really show up for our customers. Like how can we show up for them in a way that we’re solving their problems and giving them the peace of mind they need during this timeframe? How can they understand what their audiences are thinking, feeling, and how can they do that in a way that’s conducive to the new way of working, right, like the new normal for the workforce. So that’s what we’ve really been thinking about. Of course, I actually just recovered from being presumed positive for COVID. So, I mean, it’s also a terrifying time just on an individual basis. I mean, thinking about whether or not you’ll get it and how you’ll be affected. I mean, I’m concerned for my family and for the wellbeing of my employees and their families. And so I think there is a lot of fear, but I think the strongest metals are forged in the hottest fires. And so I think as companies, whether smaller or large, it’s just really focusing on what really matters right now and focusing on the customer experience and understanding how you can optimize the work that you’re doing to just point towards that North star, to be able to come out stronger and come out strong and steady. I do think that there are going to be a lot of changes in the marketplace as a whole though, obviously, this has triggered hugely unexpected, obviously unexpected pre COVID, but hugely unexpected economic downturn. And so as a result, I think people really have to think differently, but brands are starting to show up and say we want to be able to use digital tools instead of turning to these sleepy offline processes. And I think that’s a place that we can really show up and a place where we can be helpful. And so it’s been really rewarding in that capacity. So I’m definitely very optimistic about our future and how we’re growing. And I’m very optimistic in that the insights that we can deliver will really serve the customers that we have and really help them figure out what’s next.

[00:16:09]

Jamin: As a successful entrepreneur several times over, when you think about the tools that are winning, why do you think Zoom has won at the video level?

[00:16:25]

Nadia: That’s a great question. I mean, we already used Zoom and the reason that we used it is because design is one of the core pillars in our company. We care very much about the experience. It’s why we have design patents and why our platform and app looks the way that it does. So I think I personally chose Zoom for the company because of how great it looks and just the ease of use. I found it to be, to feel, much more premium compared to the Google Hangouts tool and things like that. I also do believe that many of the startups that I had been working with, or like that I know use Zoom as well. And I do want to preface this by saying I’m by no means an expert. And my sample size is probably – my sample is definitely biased. I’m talking about other founders who are just like me here. But I think sometimes it’s kind of like the concept of how things that are considered cool emerge. They emerge from the rule breakers, the rule makers and the culture shapers. And I think that in the business world, those are the startups, the startups that are breaking on the rules, they’re innovating, they’re moving fast, they’re trying to change the world. And I think sometimes we look to them to understand what is it that they’re doing and how are they thinking and how is that different and how can I integrate that into my business? So that might be a bit of a different perspective than maybe what you were expecting. But for me, I think it’s just the design, the look and feel, the premium aspect of it and the fact that it was already evangelized with forward thinking companies.

[00:18:22]

Jamin: I mean, it’s so interesting to me that you have such a strong set of incumbent tools and this relatively new upstart, which by the way, had massive, remarkable market adoption. So I’m not taking away from any of that, but yet it was able to like – how a company like Google couldn’t have won that this is just remarkable to me. I guess is my point.

[00:18:46]

Nadia: Yeah. But I would say, think of it in the same framework as like Google consumer surveys. So I think what Google has done really well is they’re able to create tools that get the job done. But I think sometimes if you’re looking for greater feature sets or more customization or a more, I guess, personalized experience like Zoom, you can add your own logo. You can integrate scheduling into a variety of different types of tools. Like we have zoom integrations with some of the tools that we use. I mean the ease of recording and then how that gets uploaded to the cloud. I mean, it has a much more robust feature set. So I think that Google is a smart company. They focus on the things that really move the needle for them. And so, I mean, I just wonder if Zoom was already skyrocketing, if it would have really moved the needle for them to invest their time and energy to mimicking some of Zoom’s product features and enhancing those capabilities. So that’s sometimes what I think about. Like our customers aren’t using Google consumer surveys to conduct their research, but Google does have a survey tool. And so I think that’s a great way to think about it.

[00:20:09]

Jamin: All right. You’ve talked about it, but give us the elevator pitch of Perksy.

[00:20:16]

Nadia: Yeah, absolutely. So Perksy is a next gen consumer insights platform that powers real-time research with everyday consumers through mobile. So our research is very contextual and in the moment, and so we have an app that users can download. It’s a mobile first, so not mobile optimized, but entirely designed to be for the mobile experience. So users download the app and they can answer these interactive immersive questions from brands in a format called stacks. So we never even use the word survey. It’s like a dirty word for consumers. And for every stack that they answer, they can collect points, which they can then redeem it over 100 different brand partners. And then on the brand side, we have a platform where they can create and design their own research campaigns. So we do everything from – we do full lifecycle insights. We do concept testing, product testing. We do guest intercepts, in store feedback, both quantitative and qualitative research through mobile. So they can create and design those research campaigns. They can hyper target their audience. So our platform enables you to have pre-targeting and get really granular, so you can reach exactly who you need to. And they can launch those campaigns and then analyze that data in real time. So the way that we’ve sort of set up our platform is to really solve many of the problems that we feel market researchers face. So we have many folks in our team who come from research backgrounds; Nielsen, Danida, Ipsos, Kantar, and even the brand facing side like HBO. And we wanted to make sure that it wasn’t just quick and dirty responses that researchers were getting, that technology was being used to actually productize the offline process. And that’s what we really bring to the table. So we consider ourselves sort of the digital one-stop shop, or I would say three quarter stop shop. There’s still definitely more that we want to add to the platform. And so we work with over 95 customers today, like Pepsi, Smucker’s, Mars, Clorox, Colgate, Target, Kohl’s, Nickelodeon. So variety of different companies. Everyone from the FMCG, entertainment agencies, big technology companies and electronic companies. So all of those. And we mostly do it in a subscription capacity. So we sort of sell these annual licenses. So brands have access to a platform where they can really get all their research done. I would say though that the core differentiator between us and sort of other research platforms is the audience. So we bring a really, really premium audience. We have always believed that the data validity really stems from who you’re talking to. Of course, there are things to do there that we’ve done on the technical side as well, but you’ve got to be reaching the right people. So we never use third-party sample. Our audience is 100% our own. And so we’re able to reach really premium audiences kind of like you mentioned in your introduction, millennials, gen Z. So we originally started as just being millennial and gen Z. We’ve since grown and expanded. So we’re nationally representative across the US and Canada. But we do really, really well with that younger audience and because of the data we have and sort of the experience that we’ve created for the respondent and for the user of the app we’re able to capture everyone from like new moms, on the go travelers. These millennials that are just joining the workforce. All sorts of premium audiences on that front.

[00:24:14]

Jamin: So I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about your decision to focus on a very, we call it niche audience, which is like the younger audience, and then expand up to national rep. Why did you decide to land there at first?

[00:24:39]

Nadia: I would say it was just – so my mom had always told me something. She used to say grow where you’re planted. And I think the reason we started with millennial and gen Z is just because that’s what we knew. So I, myself, I’m a millennial and I think I designed an experience that would make me want to participate in research, and that would make me really give quality feedback. So I realized I came up with this concept when I had gone back to school. And it really was sparked in a marketing management class. It was a HBS summer school or Harvard Summer School class that I was taking for undergraduate credit. And I remember just sitting there being like these tools are really outdated and research is a huge space, but I’m not engaging in brand research. Why aren’t I engaging in brand research? Like how come I’m not answering surveys? And so I started doing research with my peers to understand why they weren’t and they were like, I don’t know. There is nothing really that I care about it. There’s nothing really relevant. Sort of like there is no app. And I thought about it and I was like, we need to design a really engaging contextual mobile app that is going to be the way to reach the younger audience. And honestly, that was the focus from the beginning. We were just going to do millennial and gen Z. And then we started expanding to older audiences because they were like, wait, well, I love this. So we started getting gen X and going up from there and it was sort of, it happened very organically. But it really helped us sort of build a more robust solution knowing that we could serve brands in all these different ways. But the focus was on millennial and gen Z. And I will say on top of that it was something that we knew about. We knew brands were trying to reach these younger audiences. These are tomorrow’s trillion dollar demographic. We wanted to make sure that brands were able to access them and get meaningful feedback from them so they could make decisions with more confidence. And the rest, as I said, was just a natural progression.

[00:26:50]

Jamin: Part of what I do is donate my time to different universities serving on boards centered to masters in market research. And as such, I’m able to have the pleasure and honor of interacting with the next generation of researchers. What are three keys from your vantage point in managing a successful career?

[00:27:17]

Nadia: In managing a successful career. I would say – so specifically in market research. Interesting. I would say, I don’t know how much my opinion is going to be aligned with other executives, but I know in terms of what I would look for is for starters be ruthlessly devoted to your craft. I think that I even see this in our researchers. They just have this inborn curiosity, this innate curiosity. They’re constantly fact-finding, they’re seeking to discover and they genuinely derive just great pleasure from being able to do the work that they’re doing. Like, they find it fascinating. Like sometimes – we’re not in the office anymore, but when we were just like a little shout out across the office, it’s like, hey guys, isn’t this fascinating, like, come check this out, like look at what this audience said. And like, look at the product that’s winning here. And I think that’s the first thing. It’s just being devoted to your craft, really caring about the work that you’re actually doing and being passionate about it. I think many people would say that. I think that’s almost like a templated answer, but it’s really true. The reason it’s a cliché is because it’s been proven time and time again to be a key marker for success. Without passion – I think passion and success go hand in hand. Without passion, you can’t really put in everything that you could, that you absolutely could. And so I think that’s the key component. The second is really trying to decide for yourself what type of career you want to have within your sector. I mean, there are different types of researchers. You could work for a big company. You could be an innovator. Do you want to be a leader? Like what sort of micro path do you want to go down? And really sort of try to define for yourself what those interests are. Do you want to be the person who’s the trailblazer at a big company? Some folks might say I want to go to this fortune 500 brand, and I want to do my best to trail blaze there. Whereas others might say, I would rather go to a fortune 500 brand and learn what the industry is. What’s the gold standard of how to think about research and how to conduct research? Or do you want to be the person that discovers that research is such a beautiful space? I mean, no one told me about that when I was in high school. No one told me that I could go into research. It was like, here are the boxes for what you can go into. You could be a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant, work in marketing, PR all these different areas. You can be an engineer. But no one told me that I can take all of these different things that I love and find them in one place within the technology space. I loved technology. And then I came across research and was like this is an amazing space. It’s so interdisciplinary. I mean, it’s the intersection between behavioral science and the brand world, and in my case technology. And so I think it’s really trying to focus on what is the most important thing that you want to get out of your career and how can you decide which path to follow based on those decisions. And I would say the third thing in terms of managing career – I don’t know, that’s a tough one. I think I might just have two. I think maybe the third piece of advice is to each their own. You don’t have to do anything that anyone tells you, you have to do, ever. It is entirely your choice. You get to entirely – I don’t think that’s talked about enough. My parents sort of, they taught me that. My dad used to always tell me that that quote that’s probably on a 100 different magnets, but this is your world, shape it, or someone else will. But another thing my parents taught me was you never have to apologize for the path that you want to take. You never have to apologize for wanting to do things differently instead, you should embrace that. Because I think I used to, when I was younger. I used to feel like, because I didn’t want to do the same things that everyone else did that, that made me different. Maybe wrong somehow. And that turned into me becoming an entrepreneur. So I think it’s trying to figure out not just like – even don’t listen to me what I tell you to do with your career. I think it’s really about defining it for yourself. Figuring out what it is that you want most and following that path.

[00:32:05]

Jamin: We all have wanted a time machine so we could go back and tell our younger selves, something. Some sort of knowledge or whatever. What advice would you give your 10-year younger self?

[00:33:31]

Nadia: If I could talk to my younger self, I think that I would tell her that things end up working out when you have good intentions and that sometimes I think when you’re young, you’re terrified of facing hard things. Like you’re afraid that things are going to go wrong. I think you’re so afraid of preventing things going wrong, that you don’t allow things to naturally unfold. I mean, as a CEO, you have to make hard decisions. Sometimes you have to let people go that you don’t want to let go, or you wish you didn’t have to. Sometimes you have to make calls you know on your business or even on a personal level. You just want to avoid difficult situations. And I think if I could tell one thing to my younger self, I would say, seek them out, find them before they find you and just face them head on. I think it’s something that sort of comes with age, that sort of that strength comes with age. As you get older, you become more accustomed to it, but I think that’s just because you learn it over time because no one has really told you it early on. And I would say that to my younger self. Like don’t be afraid of the storm. Learn how to live within the storm. Learn how to embrace it, to accept it because the storms will pass. And when they do you’ll still be OK. Even if you feel like it’s the worst thing in the world, that’s only in the center of it, when you’re in the thick of it, in the midst of the storm. But once it passes, you find that peace again. And I think that’s true on a personal level and on a professional level. I think for myself I’m a perfectionist and I always want to perform at the highest level and that’s not always going to happen. There are ups and downs in life and that’s just the universe trying to maintain equilibrium. No one gets to have it all. And so I think learning to embrace that and to accept that early on would serve you well. And I think I would communicate that message to my younger self.

[00:36:02]

Jamin: We don’t have a lot of time, but I really want to dive in on this point or another question on your point. As an entrepreneur and CEO you know that action is always more important. It’s the most important attribute. You always have to move. If you don’t – we’re like sharks. If you don’t move, you will die. The company will die. You have to make a decision right or wrong. And I’m really curious how you deal with when you make what turns out to be a wrong decision, how you deal with the negative voice inside your head.

[00:36:46]

Nadia: I think that – so my mom is a Tony Robbins fan. And there was this a magnet that she had on the fridge. I now have it, she gave it to me, it’s on my door. And it says there is no failure, only feedback. I think that I’ve learned in time that a wrong decision is just another data point. It’s just a data point as to what doesn’t work and what doesn’t go well and what not to do. And I think I’ve sort of adapted that. I mean, I’m not going to sit here and pretend that there haven’t been decisions that I’ve made that haven’t turned out well, that I haven’t really beat myself up over because I definitely have. I think I am my own harshest critic, and I’ve definitely done that. But I think that that process is almost just a part of who I am. As long as it doesn’t affect sort of your wellbeing and your overall happiness, it doesn’t really affect my sense of self or change my self-worth. I think for me, it’s just sort of this process that I run through where I get upset about something. And I think that’s just because I care so much. I care so much about wanting – it’s the battle against the ambition. The desire to want to produce really amazing things and do great work. But I think it’s just like I’ve accepted that that’s not always going to be the case and to try and accept these things as data points and try to move on from them quickly. But when I do get into the headspace where I feel like I’m beating myself up, I try to use that as a moment and just sit with it. I try to sit with those emotions and be like, why am I this upset? Am I this upset because of this situation? Or am I upset at myself or someone else? What is the root of the emotion that I am feeling right now? And I try to sort of dig into that a little bit more. And then I think once you start to identify that, once you sort of like deconstruct your feelings, it makes it a lot easier to deal with them and to pick up and move on. And so that’s sort of my best advice around that.

[00:39:10]

Jamin: Perfect. Last question. What is your personal motto?

[00:39:15]

Nadia: I actually said it earlier in this interview. So I used it in the sentence which is the strongest metals are forged from the hottest fire. And so that’s always been my personal motto because being a CEO is like being -especially of a startup. A technology company. It’s like being on fire constantly. You’re just constantly on fire. You’re trying to put out fires. Sometimes they’re ashtray fires. Sometimes they’re house fires. But there’s always a fire. And so I think the reason why that resonated with me – I actually got it from a TV show. I really like. And I switched my model up a lot. I actually have an agenda and at the beginning of each week, I actually put my motto, like my words to live by. That’s what I call them. At the top of the page, so that I see them all week and I adapt them through my changing circumstances. So if there’s something that I know is really affecting me I will switch that up. And so the latest one, though, my personal motto really has been that the strongest metal is forged from the hottest fire. And to me, it’s both badass and meaningful. I’m just like, yes, that’s right it is forged from the hottest fire. But also meaningful as in like, Nadia don’t, don’t worry, these like incredibly treacherous, heated fires that you might come into contact with will mean that you and your company are coming out stronger. And I like to use that as words to live by.

[00:41:00]

Jamin: My guest today has been Nadia Masri. There we go. I guess today has been Nadia Masri, founder and CEO of Perksy and Forbes 30 under 30 in the 2019 marketing and advertising division. Thank you, Nadia, for joining me on the happy market research podcast today.

[00:41:18]

Nadia: Thanks so much. It was such pleasure.

[00:41:21]

Jamin: Everyone else if you’ve found value like I know I did in this episode, I hope that you will screen capture share it on LinkedIn, share it on Twitter. If you tag me or happy then we will send you a free t-shirt. Have a wonderful rest of your day.